My wife is a current student at Denver University in the Sport and Performance Psychology program, and her and I talk a lot after matches about certain techniques and ways that I can improve my mental game. We also talk about certain situations that other shooters might be in, such as a mental slump or maybe what seems to be a mental block. The equipment is there and the skill is there, but something is keeping a person from moving up or something is keeping them from shooting scores that they used be able to shoot consistently.

We also talk about whether or not there would be a benefit to silhouette shooters to talk with a Sport Psychologist prior to a big match to help work out issues that might hold them back. I think that it is a fairly common understanding that this game is much more mental than equipment biased. I also know that more than a few folks in the upper ranks highly advocate a couple different books and/or videos on the subject of mentally mastering this skill.

So I wanted to throw this out there and see how many people in this sport would consider talking with a Sport Psychologist in order to improve their game. We all invest great amounts of money in our equipment and our ammo, but how many of us would seek out a Sport Psychologist and invest in the mental aspect of our craft? And I am not talking about bunches of sessions laying on a couch and delving into your inner most feelings. I am just talking about learning mental skills that you can absolutely put into practice and make yourself a better competitor. There are so many techniques and mental preparation activities that can actually be put to use once you know what they are and how to implement them into your training regimen. Sport Psychology is something that Olympic athletes and professional sports teams are taking advantage of these days realizing what a great tool it can be. Everywhere from pro football teams to professional marathoners and triathletes.

What say you all? Be completely honest.

Cheers!

Trent

Why don't you start a poll on it.

I think that it is an excellent idea. There is no doubt that shooting is 90-95% mental Trent any idea on the cost of this?

Lanny Basham.

Mary

Bob, I can start a poll, but I was more looking to hear everyone's individual ideas on this and what your thoughts are. Maybe I'll start the poll after answering a few questions.

To answer Jim's question, the costs would of course vary depending on who you decided to seek out. Take my wife for example, she is a student currently and she can only do consulting and the fees are $50 per hour. The money doesn't go to her though, it gets put into the program at Denver University. Specifically the money is paid to Center for Perfomance Excellence (CPEx) at Denver University. If you were to seek out a Sports Psychology "Consultant" (this is a person with a Master's degree in Sports Psych) you could probably expect the costs to be around $65 per hour. With an actual Dr. in Sports Psychology (PhD) you can probably expect to pay in the range of $100 per hour.

Now, these prices are completely subjective and would depend on who you sought out. Also, a lot of Psychologists use a "sliding scale". Meaning that they can make adjustments to their fees if they know they are working with underprivileged individuals. If a person is shooting a $2k rifle I'm not sure where they fall on that scale.

My wife is just short of getting her Masters degree and I would argue that I think that she could help at least 95% of the people in the game. Some basic aspects of the "mental game" are so simple and obvious, we just need someone to show us some techniques. Other things are more technical and take more time to teach the methods.

For myself, I think that 2 big areas where this type of consultation would be a huge advantage would be getting ready for a big match, and also for folks trying to break through a plateau. Like someone that is frustrated and has been sitting on the cusp of moving from AAA to Master for a few years and wants to sharpen their mental side of the sport.

Innocent wrote:Lanny Basham.

Mary

Mary, my point of this discussion is specifically in regards to seeking professional one on one consultation. While books offer a great resource that is not what this is about. There are a lot of great books and videos on improving mental acuity and they serve their purpose. Seeking out a Sport Psychologist might not be for everyone though, and it would be for those folks that see it as an investment in their "personal equipment" as opposed to investing in actual material equipment. I'm definitely not trying to change any minds, just looking to hear people's opinions and start a thread that could be a bit more interesting than everyday questions about equipment or rules.

Can you add more than Lanny's name? I'd really like to hear what you think.

Thank you!!

Trent wrote:....To answer Jim's question, the costs would of course vary depending on who you decided to seek out. Take my wife for example, she is a student currently and she can only do consulting and the fees are $50 per hour. The money doesn't go to her though, it gets put into the program at Denver University..............Now, these prices are completely subjective and would depend on who you sought out. Also, a lot of Psychologists use a "sliding scale". ......

JB... are you thinking what I'm thinking and thinking of taking up a collection to send McAlice We know he needs help

Lanny does consultations, as well as seminars. I have not attended one, but I do have a cousin that works with the All Blacks (rugby) in NZ as well of some of the NZ sailing teams, so I am aware of the practice of SP. Yes, I believe it helps. The real question gets down to how much do you want to win, or improve, and what level are you content to let the chips fall. In many cases I have seen the plateau, and 98% of the time I would agree that it is caused by the mental side of the game, do these people really want to improve, I'm not sure that they want to improve enough to put out the money. Some are content to putting out the money for the true Mexican side of the sport which is a very family oriented outing and social event.

If you look at the rules and the lay out of the silhouette game, eventually everyone will shoot themselves into a class that they are not competitive in, due to luck and/or skill, then physically things start to fail, and/or they were never cut out to compete in that class, they just happened to have hit enough animals in a few matches within two years. The rules are not set like the NRA position/prone where you keep a running average for your classification.

From your wifes point of view, I think it would be a good thing to start, especially if you can get her to shoot the game as well, so she can truly understand the challenges,

Mary

259, JB likes his jewels too much to piss McAlice off that much, he may make a few pokes on SC but when it comes to putting up the money bet he would bail on that chance, for fear of retaliation.

Innocent

Bob259 wrote:

Trent wrote:....To answer Jim's question, the costs would of course vary depending on who you decided to seek out. Take my wife for example, she is a student currently and she can only do consulting and the fees are $50 per hour. The money doesn't go to her though, it gets put into the program at Denver University..............Now, these prices are completely subjective and would depend on who you sought out. Also, a lot of Psychologists use a "sliding scale". ......

JB... are you thinking what I'm thinking and thinking of taking up a collection to send McAlice We know he needs help

Shouldn't we wait until he gets the stitches out?

On topic, I would suggest mental imaging training on a group basis, possibly at a big match, maybe on the day before or after the match. Alternatively, pick a central sight that people can travel to, go to class, practice the skill and then go to a range for application and individual coaching. What this means is a psychologist that also shoots. So yes, a Lanny Basham.

The amount of time that it would take a highly trained professional to get to know one well enough to make more of a difference than reading a good book would be very expensive. Now consider a student and the stakes go up. Probably cost prohibitive even if one ownes a 2k gun. Mary I think you are correct with the assumption that for what ever reason, people truly won't do what it takes to get better. One big factor in why so many 2k rifles are sold. (the easy way out, in their minds). Many of the shooters I see won't spend an extra $2 a box for ammo even if they believe it will get them 2 more per round. (Me Included) Cost vs. Reality!

BCloninger wrote:On topic, I would suggest mental imaging training on a group basis, possibly at a big match, maybe on the day before or after the match. Alternatively, pick a central sight that people can travel to, go to class, practice the skill and then go to a range for application and individual coaching. What this means is a psychologist that also shoots. So yes, a Lanny Basham.

I don't believe that Lanny is a Psychologist, but I do believe is good at what he teaches. I would like it if he listed his certifications on his website.

It is interesting that you brought up group sessions. That is something that my wife suggested but I didn't bring it up yet. I thought we would talk about the basics before I brought that up. It is very common for teams to do group type sessions. I like where you are going with it.

Innocent wrote:Lanny does consultations, as well as seminars. I have not attended one, but I do have a cousin that works with the All Blacks (rugby) in NZ as well of some of the NZ sailing teams, so I am aware of the practice of SP. Yes, I believe it helps. The real question gets down to how much do you want to win, or improve, and what level are you content to let the chips fall. In many cases I have seen the plateau, and 98% of the time I would agree that it is caused by the mental side of the game, do these people really want to improve, I'm not sure that they want to improve enough to put out the money. Some are content to putting out the money for the true Mexican side of the sport which is a very family oriented outing and social event.

If you look at the rules and the lay out of the silhouette game, eventually everyone will shoot themselves into a class that they are not competitive in, due to luck and/or skill, then physically things start to fail, and/or they were never cut out to compete in that class, they just happened to have hit enough animals in a few matches within two years. The rules are not set like the NRA position/prone where you keep a running average for your classification.

From your wifes point of view, I think it would be a good thing to start, especially if you can get her to shoot the game as well, so she can truly understand the challenges,

Mary

Mary, thank you so much for that response. You brought up some very good perspectives. My wife goes to AASP conferences(Association for Applied Sports Psychology) and the All Blacks come to the conferences to promote Sport Psychology. They are pretty amazing!

The situation with shooting yourself into a class before you are ready is definitely something that could be misconceived as a "slump", and I hadn't thought of that. I think the necessity to shoot 3 scores to move up keeps that from happening as much as possible, but I am sure that it does happen.

Again, thank you Mary!

First off Bob 259, McAlice is a Machinist by trade who probably makes just a wee ( read a whole lot more) bit more than I, so if the notion comes up to get Bob anything the only way I'll donate is to get him a 6.5 Douglas barrel that he blows about!

Trent, I have used mental imaging with some of my students to help them overcome test anxiety. No qualifications, but the techniques are simple and, from what I've found, safe. My scores are much better when I practice what I preach, and there's no doubt that professional training would help.