One gun at Nationals

kevinpagano · Post by **kevinpagano** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:04 pm

I was just wondering if any of you know how many shooters were shooting just one gun at nationals and do they have any sort of equipment surveys like in other shooting disciplines at National level matches.

Just curious

kevin

chardonnay · Post by **chardonnay** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:07 pm

I only have one rifle which i shot at nationals. They did have survey sheets to fill out at nationals as well.

nomad · Post by **nomad** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:44 am

Motl told me that, by his 'estimate' (he didn't actually count) about half the rifles on the line in standard were hunters.

Considering that PA is a state where the standard gun is popular, I would think that the 'one gun shooter' with a hunter rifle has moved into the majority in much of the country. (I have no hard statistics to back that supposition.)

Barring any further fiddling with the rules -- and I think that most of us hope that that does NOT happen! -- I'd bet a small milkshake that the standard rifle will be in the hands of only a very small minority within a few more years.

Innocent · Post by **Innocent** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:09 am

My son and I are both one gunners, having a standard built, but not sure how much I'll use it.

Innocent

Gator · Post by **Gator** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:01 am

Gator · Post by **Gator** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:20 am

Don't count your chickens (pun intended)

Also, at the Competitor's meeting at Highpower in Ridgway, there were ongoing proposals for further changes or restrictions or definitions to the Hunter Class rifles. Particularly barrel dimensions.

Gator

nomad · Post by **nomad** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:25 pm

Gator,

Unfortunately, we'll ALWAYS have at least a few dissatisfied competitors with an agenda.

Were those complaining prepared to offer any 100% WORKABLE solutions that avoided falling back into the same mudpit that we had before the current rules were adopted? Or were they just complaining...?

Back in the years before I resolved to stop arguing with people, I always got annoyed when anyone voiced a complaint without offering a bulletproof solution!

I'm MUCH more relaxed now... lol

Bob259 · Post by **Bob259** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:10 am

kevinp wrote:I was just wondering if any of you know how many shooters were shooting just one gun at nationals and do they have any sort of equipment surveys like in other shooting disciplines at National level matches.

Just curious

kevin

Kevin, One of our guys did a survey (walked the line for each relay) at the Nationals this year, as he was thinking of doing the same, and it was about 30-35% of the folks were using one gun for both Std and Hunter, or what kept getting refered and corrected to as 'light rifle'.

He decided to do that next year himself.... saying "30 % of the shooters can't be wrong"..... hmmm does that mean 70% are?????

Bob259 · Post by **Bob259** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:21 am

Gator wrote:Don't count your chickens (pun intended)

Also, at the Competitor's meeting at Highpower in Ridgway, there were ongoing proposals for further changes or restrictions or definitions to the Hunter Class rifles. Particularly barrel dimensions.

Gator

I don't mind the opening of the rules for custom stocks, etc, as much as I do the equipment race is now on again. Before off the shelf was a good solution. Now, some of the barrels in hunter (light rifle) class you'd need a set of mic's to determine if there was a taper, custom actions, 54.18 actions with match two stage triggers recalibrated to 2#.. etc... make it now a $$ race.

I also agree that it makes little difference, as the same good shooters will be the same ones on top if they had to shoot a $50 old J.C. Higgins closet rifle.

Practice, Practice, Practice makes you a good shooter, not the equipment.

But, I sure do want one of them new wheels up light rifles with all the gizmos...

Gator · Post by **Gator** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:59 am

It has involved a lot of changes but permitting the custom stocks is probably the biggest contributor to the current problem. If they had stayed with the factory stocks the weight limitation and existing barrel channels would have stopped most of the heavy actions and barrels etc. I think I remember when the weight on the Hunter was 7

Gator · Post by **Gator** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:08 am

[quote]At the 2006 Smallbore Nationals, the top 10 Master scores totaled with the 3 open winners totaled 1049 points in BOTH STANDARD AND HUNTER. These are the 13 BEST Silhouette Shooters in the country, maybe in the world since we had 3 foreign countries represented. Didn

nomad · Post by **nomad** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:42 pm

Problem is (was?) that the 'off the shelf factory hunter rifle' rule didn't work.

That much we KNOW.

Can you tell me how you propose to haul that expired equine out of the bog and make it run this time?

The current rules are certainly not perfect, but they are working. (Very well, actually.)

If anyone wants to return to the 'thrilling days of yesteryear', I would suggest that he/she write the proposed rule and we'll all shoot at it. If it can't be shot down, then it could be submitted as a proposal. If, OTOH, it proves to have holes in it, then it's just a rehash of the old controversy.

(Just for Ha-HA's: Please start with explaining how you would prohibit the use of those 'rule-beaters' which look -- what a shock! -- almost exactly like the current custom rigs and which came from factories turning out fewer rifles annually than Mark and Marvin do individually. As a match director, I've faced that sort of problem and am tired of arguing about it. I find what we have now pretty relaxing...)

BTW: What trigger replacement issue? Are you talking about current rules?

The equipment race has, in reality, always been 'on'. This is just the current iteration.

Tally HO!

Gator · Post by **Gator** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:05 am

Nomad

You are right, the old way didn

Bob259 · Post by **Bob259** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:12 am

[quote="Gator"]........ How many times have you had someone, not in the game, say

nomad · Post by **nomad** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:17 am

Gator,

I'm 1500 miles from home and a rule book but AFAIK the old trigger restrictions have been completely dropped. (Unless I can recheck the book, I try never to quote rules...even when I'm 'sure' I know them! lol)

Triggers were an example of well-intended rule writing that was ill-advised, unenforceable and really had no effect on match outcomes. We can't check trigger internals without a tear-down rule -- which not only ain't gonna happen but, IMO shouldn't -- and so anyone who wanted to could get around the rules. That was an argument just waiting to happen. And I'd challenge anyone to prove that the current 'relaxed' trigger rules have done anything other than make people happier about their choices and removed a point of contention. As far as I'm concerned, anything that holds 2 pounds is good to go. Makes life easier!

Bob,

You're right! $1,000 is a bargain! LOL
That said, stool-shooters spend multiples of that just on bbls, cowboy action types often put more money into their BOOTS, serious varmint hunters are usually seen with nearly that invested in electronic callers...and we're ALL monetary pikers when compared to skiers, motorcycle afficionados or (Lord save us!) GOLFERS! (They spend more just on bright green and yellow pants than I did on my last scope!)

I think that we might want to rethink the rule on shootoffs. (There should probably be tighter controls on what can be loaded and how. This follows an incident -- which had, thankfully, no further consequences -- at a major match this year. Safety rules, SHOULD be changed as needed whenever we discover a weakness.)
GC has asked for a formal proposal allowing material additions to existing hunter stocks in order to bring them in line with current custom styles. We've discussed that earlier this year on this list and it's NRA's position at this time but it needs a formal proposal to the committee in order to make it part of the rule book. That's ready to go forward.

I, for one, would hope that everything else gets left alone for a while!

One gun at Nationals

One gun at Nationals

One gun at the nationals

Re: One gun at Nationals