Actual speed of Eley ammo?

[Jason]

I have some of the case of Eley Club Extra that was downgraded Tenex (I think) with the EPS bullet that has 1065 stamped on the end of the boxes. I chronographed it yesterday (45 degrees, 70% humidity, evelation somewhere around 300 to 500 feet) and got these velocities five feet from the muzzle:

967.4
975.2
960.4
966.2
983.1
1015
984.1
980.3
1027

The velocities much lower than what was stamped on the box worried me, because this was in my Marlin 57 lever action gun that I shoot for the smallbore lever action match. I have hit 10-in-a-row on rams three times before using standard velocity ammo and had one or two stand, so I am looking for an accurate load that also hits hard enough to reliably knock the rams off the stands. The rams are the last leg of the grand slam that I need for smallbore cowboy and I have needed them for two years or so now. I haven't found a high velocity round (other than Velocitors that I'm not sure are allowed) that will shoot nearly as well out of this rifle as this Eley does, but these targets are big so I have to balance a bit larger group size with the ability to actually knock the target down.

With all of that said, has anyone had that much of a difference between the stamped velocity on Eley ammo and the actual velocity in non-autoloaders? Is it a concern that I had two that were so much faster? Even in the cooler temperatures, I thought my cheap Shooting Chrony might have been reading lower than actual, but my 270Win loads that I checked afterwards were right at 2965fps where they should be. On the bright side, all eight of the rams that I hit in the match went down and I was happy to get eight, as my rear sight wouldn't go high enough and I was having to guess at how high to hold over the backs of the rams.

Thanks for any experience and advice you might have to share on this.

[Jerry G]

Looks like your conograph(sp) isn't working. The ones I have tested were real clost to their stamped velocities. I have tested at 1000 ft el and 4000 ft el.

[Jason]

That was what I thought, too, but I went back and checked my data from the day and the 22 hornet, 30-30 win, and 270 win velocities were right where they should have been. All of those are at least 1900fps, though, so maybe the chrony was reading low for much slower loads. What temperature is the Eley normally tested at? Would it being 45 degrees (F) account for such a velocity loss?

[malinois]

That might be why they were down graded....? I 'm guessing but vel and accuracy standards were not met by that lot..?

[Jason]

The flyers might be why it got downgraded, but each lot is tested and then stamped with a velocity as I understand it. Also keep in mind that this is a 50+ year old levergun that might be a bit inconsistent.

[BlauBear]

My understanding is that downgraded Eley is consistent, just not at the speed specified for that round. Ammunition is temperature sensitive and 45 degrees is outside of the range - I'd want it 70-90 degrees. Personal experience is that ammunition becomes erratic over 90 degrees Fahrenheit and I'm told ammunition slows down as it gets cold. These days cooler weather chases me inside (no snickering, please) so no direct experience.

[Innocent]

Jason,
As a QM who deals with a lots of precision standards, I would say check your chrony calibration for speeds lower than 2000fps.....but then I know I preaching to someone here that understands what I am saying...
Mary

[lone ringer]

Jason, for whatever is worth I will tell you that going to a less accurate ammo for the sake of trying no to ring targets is not a wise thing because you have to hit them first. I usually use Lapua Scoremax with 48 gr bullets that hit harder than the 40 gr but you can't buy them any more. Lately I have been shooting "downgraded Tenex" on a Marlin 39A and have not lost any rams with it and to qualify my statement I will tell you that I have hit all ten rams the last three times I have shot that combination of rifle and ammo.

I have not put a scope on the Marlin 39A rifle to see how accurate the ammo is and I have not run them through a chronograph but on my scoped rifles the ammo is very accurate.

When I started buying downgraded Tenex that year it came on orange Club Extra boxes and this year on White Practice boxes. Both had EPS bullets but the ones on the White Practice boxes are downgraded for very obvious reasons since I can expect to find from 5 to 10 bullets with round nose bullets on every box of 50 and also a few dented cases in every brick that would hardly chamber on any rifle, as far as accuracy is concerned it shoots OK for a $5.25 box of ammo but I would not buy any more of it if it had to be separated and also finding the dented cartridges out of every brick.

A couple of months back I saw a friend of mine using some bulk packed cooper plated high velocity ammo and I asked him how come he was using that ammo and he said that he had read in the Internet that standard velocity ammo would not take down the targets and to show him otherwise I proceeded to knock down all ten of my rams with standard velocity ammo.

Some times we do a disservice to others that read our treads and they hear that standard velocity ammo will not take down .22 half size rams, the hunter's pistol shooters have been doing it for 30 years and if the targets and stands are done correctly there is no reason we should be having any trouble ringing them with our rifles. We need to make sure the rams are set correctly and that if we use heavy coats of regular paint (not spray paint) that it does not drip onto the pads or stands because then it makes it harder for the targets to slide off of them and we may ring the occasional target. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Jason]

Mary (Innocent),

Yep.. being a career engineer is leaving me wanting more hard data here, as you might be able to tell. I was short on time when testing before. I want to go back and test when I can try different diffuser setups, etc. I also noticed that each load that was tested had about the same percentage occurrence of much faster flyers, which makes me suspect the chronograph wasn't quite right for both high and low speed projectiles.

Tony,

This ammo that I'm talking about is the downgraded Tenex EPS in the orange Club Extra boxes that I got from Cathy. It shoots great in both my rebarreled 1712 and in this Marlin 57. We have pads welded onto our rails that are the size of the foot of each animal to encourage consistent placement. I have personally rung rams at my range as I said above that have prevented me from completing my grand slam for smallbore cowboy. That has only been with Wolf or SK, though. As noted above, all eight rams that I hit in the match on Saturday went down well, which makes me question the chronograph reading even more. Now I just need to find some ammo as accurate as that Eley with the EPS bullet but with the round bullet instead. The top edge of that little step in the EPS bullet sometimes gets caught on the edge of the breech during loading.

[chickenchoker]

Why don't you shoot it in your smallbore hunter rifle over your chronograph to verify that it's the ammo? Could be something going on with the rifle.

[Jason]

Yep. Going to do that next session when I have more time. I'm also trying to find another chronograph to set up along with mine to test. Thanks!

[Another Dang 9]

I use a pro crony and it reads 100 fps slower than my buddys crony cronografh. so it may just be the crony. But try it in a better gun too or clean the heck out of the old gun.

[kevinbear]

I chronograph lots of 22 ammo and am not at all surprised by the speeds your encountering, it was 45 degree's, try clocking all the rest of your ammo at that temp and you'll realize why they make biathalon ammo.

[Travelor]

When I started buying downgraded Tenex that year it came on orange Club Extra boxes and this year on White Practice boxes. Both had EPS bullets but the ones on the White Practice boxes are downgraded for very obvious reasons since I can expect to find from 5 to 10 bullets with round nose bullets on every box of 50 and also a few dented cases in every brick that would hardly chamber on any rifle, as far as accuracy is concerned it shoots OK for a $5.25 box of ammo but I would not buy any more of it if it had to be separated and also finding the dented cartridges out of every brick.

Interesting that your Practive ammo has differing nose shapes. I too bought some of it at Winnsboro. The first unopened "brick" of it I opened had 3 different lot numbers and two different years of manufacture. Even the boxes that were the same lot # had noses all the way from full EPS noses to round noses with everything in between.

I shot some of it and the results were as you would expect with different nose configurations. I was able to return it and got a full refund.

My question to all this is WHAT WAS THE HE** ELEY THINKING SENDING OUT THIS CRAP????????????????

From what I have read and heard, Eley tests their EPS ammo and depending on the groups they segregate it and package it in different grades, Tennex being the best, Match, then...etc. What I am saying is that it is my understanding that all ELEY EPS ammo other than Tennex is downgraded Tennex.

Merry Christmas,

George and Twilla Toney

[BlauBear]

If I run into that, I'll begin sorting. No big whup. I would rather not deal with it, and Eley should not have done it, but oh well.