Taper

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Grantmac
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Taper

Post by Grantmac »

Had a spirited debate at the range today about barrel taper. One party claiming it had to be continuous from chamber to muzzle. The other saying that so long as the muzzle was a smaller diameter and it didn't happen via a step the barrel was legal.

What is the consensus?
thauglor
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Re: Taper

Post by thauglor »

Here is the definition from merriam-webster: 1 : to become progressively smaller toward one end. 2 : to diminish gradually. transitive verb. : to cause to taper.

In my option that you paid nothing for, i wouldn't travel to a big match with a step in a barrel and expect it to pass muster in hunter class. Yes I think the rule is dumb and needlessly incurs expenses to build a compliant gun. If you can put on a 1.2" thick barrel that narrows down to 1.1 inches, a bull barrel of 1.100 inches all the way down gives you nothing extra. But it is in the rules
No1_49er
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Re: Taper

Post by No1_49er »

What if the taper was reverse i.e., progressively larger toward the muzzle, even over the last 4 to 6 inches so that it becomes "muzzle heavy"?
Think polar moment of inertia. More stable, like a running target rifle.
Just sayin'.
thauglor
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Re: Taper

Post by thauglor »

No1_49er wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 6:40 pm What if the taper was reverse i.e., progressively larger toward the muzzle, even over the last 4 to 6 inches so that it becomes "muzzle heavy"?
Think polar moment of inertia. More stable, like a running target rifle.
Just sayin'.
covered under rule e:
(e) Barrel: A hunting style contoured barrel that tapers from chamber to
muzzle. Bull barrels are not permitted. A factory tuner that does not
act as a muzzle brake or compensator is permitted. Maximum barrel
length is 26 inches, including tuner. (See Rule 3.16.1).
No1_49er
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Re: Taper

Post by No1_49er »

Doesn't say that the taper has to become progressively smaller from the action to the muzzle.
My proposition is for a reversal of the conventional action to muzzle taper. Could be from, say, 5/8 inch to 1 1/4 inch, non-linear taper. Still tapered.
If it's tapered, it's not necessarily a bull barrel.
It's not a muzzle brake or a compensator.
It just happens to be heavier toward the muzzle.
And who says that my hunting style rifle can't be so configured?
Pedantic,and semantics.
Grantmac
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Re: Taper

Post by Grantmac »

So in the collective opinion would a straight barrel which tapers only in the last 10" be legal?
thauglor
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Re: Taper

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No1_49er wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 7:34 pm Doesn't say that the taper has to become progressively smaller from the action to the muzzle.
My proposition is for a reversal of the conventional action to muzzle taper. Could be from, say, 5/8 inch to 1 1/4 inch, non-linear taper. Still tapered.
If it's tapered, it's not necessarily a bull barrel.
It's not a muzzle brake or a compensator.
It just happens to be heavier toward the muzzle.
And who says that my hunting style rifle can't be so configured?
Pedantic,and semantics.
I am assuming you are playing devils advocate, but the rule as written ("tapers from chamber to muzzle") along with the definition of the taper and applying some English language, it would mean the muzzle is thinner than the chamber. Even your own 2 posts specifically state a "reverse" taper, and by so doing you acknowledge that the words "tapers from chamber to muzzle" to a standard English speaker mean starting at the chamber and becoming progressively thinner towards the muzzle.

Grantmac wrote: So in the collective opinion would a straight barrel which tapers only in the last 10" be legal?
I would think so, especially if the barrel already doesn't start out as fat as the receiver. You can always get a washer made with the ID big enough to stop in the middle of tapered section. It will positively show there is a taper
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Re: Taper

Post by Grantmac »

thauglor wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 4:59 am I would think so, especially if the barrel already doesn't start out as fat as the receiver. You can always get a washer made with the ID big enough to stop in the middle of tapered section. It will positively show there is a taper
One party very specifically considered any barrel with a straight section along it's length to be illegal.

The other that any barrel which was smaller at the muzzle via a taper not a step to be legal.

I see there is an 1807 for sale here which has shot in Hunter at Nationals that would meet the requirements of #2 but not #1.
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Re: Taper

Post by thauglor »

Yup that was my 1807. If you think about it, almost every custom barrel has a straight section for a couple of inches then starts to taper. #1 would exclude most custom hunter rigs. It just depends on what is a reasonable amount of straight section vs tapered section. Is 3/4 of the length okay? Last 1 inch? They do look like traditional hunting rifles with a tapered barrel

And hell, with all the carbon barrels out nowadays, you could take a bull barrel and build a carbon or fiberglass tapered look to it. Making weight would be an issue but you would have a tapered barrel
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Re: Taper

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thauglor wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 4:59 am
I am assuming you are playing devils advocate, but the rule as written ("tapers from chamber to muzzle") along with the definition of the taper and applying some English language, it would mean the muzzle is thinner than the chamber. Even your own 2 posts specifically state a "reverse" taper, and by so doing you acknowledge that the words "tapers from chamber to muzzle" to a standard English speaker mean starting at the chamber and becoming progressively thinner towards the muzzle.
Devils advocate. Pedantic and semantics.
Perhaps.
But if I were to take the word reverse out of my description, it is still possible to have a taper from the receiver to the muzzle, even if the receiver-end diameter is 5/8 and the muzzle is 1 1/4 inch. It is still tapered from the chamber to the muzzle.
The rule says 'tapers from chamber to muzzle'. It does not say that the taper must be constant, nor does it say that the thickest part of the barrel must be the receiver end.
Yes, pedantic and semantics.
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Re: Taper

Post by thauglor »

No1_49er wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:55 am
thauglor wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 4:59 am
I am assuming you are playing devils advocate, but the rule as written ("tapers from chamber to muzzle") along with the definition of the taper and applying some English language, it would mean the muzzle is thinner than the chamber. Even your own 2 posts specifically state a "reverse" taper, and by so doing you acknowledge that the words "tapers from chamber to muzzle" to a standard English speaker mean starting at the chamber and becoming progressively thinner towards the muzzle.
Devils advocate. Pedantic and semantics.
Perhaps.
But if I were to take the word reverse out of my description, it is still possible to have a taper from the receiver to the muzzle, even if the receiver-end diameter is 5/8 and the muzzle is 1 1/4 inch. It is still tapered from the chamber to the muzzle.
The rule says 'tapers from chamber to muzzle'. It does not say that the taper must be constant, nor does it say that the thickest part of the barrel must be the receiver end.
Yes, pedantic and semantics.
Perhaps you don't know English as well as you think you do. There is a reason you don't see them on the line, but you go ahead build it and take one to next year's nationals, let me know how it goes
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Emietenkorte
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Re: Taper

Post by Emietenkorte »

Definitions:
Taper - diminish or reduce in thickness toward one end. (verb)
Chamber - 1. an enclosed space or cavity. 2. the part of a gun bore that contains the charge or bullet. (noun)
Muzzle - the open end of the barrel of a firearm. (noun)
From - indicating the point in space at which a journey, motion, or action starts. (preposition)
To - expressing motion in the direction of (a particular location). (preposition)

Rule:
"tapers from chamber to muzzle"

Proper application of logic: Diminishes or reduces in thickness from the chamber to muzzle; chamber and muzzle as defined above. If you want to have a reverse taper then I would suggest building a standard rifle.

Remaining Question... "A hunting style contoured barrel" This is where I think things get a little ambiguous. Currently available hunting hardware is definitely diverse, even now with many individuals hunting with lightweight chassis the definition of hunting style is different than when this rule was created. However, when you google "hunting rifle" the majority of what you see has some sort of contour that has a cylindrical shank, which typically houses the chamber followed by a radius which transitions directly into some sort of uninterrupted taper to the muzzle.

I would agree that this section of the rule may need better defining or rather a more current definition. I would say, that if the majority of the barrel is cylindrical (as you stated "tapers in the last 10 inches") it would not be considered "a hunting style contoured barrel that tapers from chamber (Starting point of the taper) to muzzle (end of the taper).
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Re: Taper

Post by psteiger »

damn, late to the party and out of popcorn. =))
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firewizard40
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Re: Taper

Post by firewizard40 »

Let's just go back to "light rifle "again so us old farts can pull our old 64 MS out of the back of the safe and let them see the light of day again. Just my opinion...
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Emietenkorte
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Re: Taper

Post by Emietenkorte »

firewizard40 wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:00 pm Let's just go back to "light rifle "again so us old farts can pull our old 64 MS out of the back of the safe and let them see the light of day again. Just my opinion...
What’s stopping you from doing that now? Shoot it, have fun!
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