And I’ll add….

Yes, it WILL probably start an equipment race…

You’ll have a bunch of people thinking they can buy animals with a new barrel.

They will get one and realize they just spent a lot of money and their score will not change appreciably.

How do I know this?!?!? How can that be!?!?!??!

I have seen it ALL THE EFFIN TIME in smallbore, someone who has CZ or Remington that shoots “OK” goes and buys/has built a really nice custom gun. They are usually VERY shocked to realize, their scores don’t go up, initially they usually go down because the new rifle doesn’t feel the same as the trusty rifle they are used to.

Is the actual accuracy potential and ultimate use of the rifle at a higher level then the one they had? Absolutely. Do they still have to put the work in to shoot those AAA scores or move up to Master scores? Absolutely….

This game is the Indian, not the arrow….

How much does it cost to reline the bore, a ballpark figure?

I’ve had 2 lever guns relined, 22 and 22mag, both successfully done and as accurate as before. $500ish plus for a quality smith and using a quality liner. Larger center fire I have heard is very iffy…. It’ll be shootable, but not accurate.

Rebarreling isn’t that much more.

Rebore? No thank you. If I wanted to shoot (name the overbored caliber) I’d have bought one to shoot in the first place.

AND…. I’ll add one more part to “factory rifle” as someone who raced in motor sports for a long time before getting into the shooting sports….

You have NEVER seen as much cheating in a class as you see in a “production class”.

You know where you see almost NO CHEATING?

A formula class. As the name implies there is a formula, standard rifle could be looked at as a formula class. As long as certain parameters are met, it’s legal.

Where do you draw the line at a “production” or “factory” rifle? If you do a trigger job is it still “factory”? There are guns out there with non-factory parts in them, does that make them legal, not legal?

If you stumble across a hummer of a rifle, it is fair if the other guy by dumb luck gets a dud rifle that patterns as oppose to groups?

This topic comes up every once in a while and I think it’s ridiculous.

While I’m on a role….

Why the eff can you rebore or reline?

If they were “as good” as a new barrel, then why not just let us install a new barrel?

Really, you guys that popped up saying NO…

You can rebore, have what ever chamber you want cut in it, rebore to the tolerance you want… isn’t that a new barrel?

Reline is the same thing.

If that is such a viable option then what is to keep THE EXACT THINGS YOU SAY PEOPLE WILL DO WITH A NEW BARREL from being done to a rebored or relined barrel?

OK… that is all… I think…

ok, my popcorn is done. I know there's more.......let me stir the fire....anyone ever shot ANYTHING other than silhouette? You don't know equipment race......benchrest??? PRS ??? F-class???? Across the course? Anybody? Recently? Like this decade? I watched Bill Motl shoot a 37/40 with an NS 527 and bulkpack ammo. This is fun.......

PRS is insanely expensive. My oldest son shoots in that. I’d never get involved because of that and I’ve been to watch.

dhatch wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 7:24 pm PRS is insanely expensive. My oldest son shoots in that. I’d never get involved because of that and I’ve been to watch.

Ask Pat about it… Elisabeth just started PRS, free rifle and scope and she’s still eating him out of house and home with reloading ammo… their event round count is what a HP silhouette shoots in a year or more…. She’s digging it though….

(AND to bring up “production” guns… was talking to a PRS shooter and same thing, their “production” class is anything but… LOL.)

I'm for it.

There already is an equipment race.

The people that can afford it are cycling through rifles to get one that is the most accurate they can find. Or they are paying the gunsmith to make it look original so you will never know

SqHunter wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 7:20 pm

Merlin wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 6:06 pm "competing against cryogenically treated , air gauged, hand lapped barrels with custom chambers . Then get your custom smithy to mount the forearm and/or magazine hanger on a computer analyzed null spot."

Just as a curious voice I ask..... Does anyone think that shooting an iron sighted rifle, standing with no sling or support, would benefit to a measurable degree by having the additional equipment that David listed above? If you had a new and "average" Henry rifle straight from the factory would all this additional crap buy you one single target due to the actual increase in the rifles accuracy?

Whether you have a Rolls Royce or a Hyundai you still have to drive the danged thing.

No, I don't think a new barrel would improve scores greatly. There are already rifles on the line that shoot MOA or close to it. But I also don't think that is the point of the question. The new barrel would make it possible to use rifles that are otherwise just decorations. And doing so would also likely mean you could get a shooter grade rifle cheaper than what it takes now, considering how expensive nice Winchesters are.

I will vote for changing the laws, even if it changes the game a little. Improvement of equipment and technique is likely the best justification for any shooting sports existence. While we are at it, lets take away all of the rules for standard class smallbore and high power as well. One of things that is killing our sport is we have ran the innovators away. Smallbore in particular should be open to multiple disciplines, we should be recruiting people from PRS and 3-P if we want to survive.

Big +1 on standard class. Should be open to literally anything with the scope mounted directly above the bore less than 2" and under whatever weight limited a scoped 3P rifle can hit. We should be making it far easier for ISSF shooters to bolt a scope on their gun and come knock over a few targets.
Air rifle does that and it's one of the things I find most brilliant about it.

I have no dog in the lever action fight (yet) but I'd rather see people able to keep a rifle shooting for the least cost which seems to be a rebarrel.

The beauty of this sport is the equipement does not matter as much as skill. The top three shooters are going to win every match because they are just better. That level of skill is awesome to behold.

This doesn't really matter to me because all of my lever rifles already have custom barrels and Anschutz 5018 triggers - but I am in favor of a rule change allowing re-barreling.

I think that rule would probably need to include a barrel length and diameter limit. I wanted to go with 30-inch bull barrels on the Krieger barrels that I put on my lever rifles but I thought that might lead to complaining so I went with 26-inch, 3/4" diameter barrels. (Lots of sight radius and very stable!!)

Dustin

Dustin. like your comments. It's good to add some humor to this discussion. I agree with Joe Atwood that a good barrel doesn't automatically translate to higher scores. It's the nut behind the wheel that counts.

Possibly, Ruger will make the 336 and 1894 in calibers suitable for silhouette. And all Henry needs to do is make their 30-30 and .357 side loaders with a 24" barrel. But, at this time, shooters have to search for a suitable rifle. I just think lever gun would have more participation if the rifles were more. readily available.

Jim Luke

Y'all might think Dustin is kidding, he's not. One gun has a krieger barrel "liner" where he bored a .750 hole in the original barrel and slipped the krieger in, the other is a Lilja "liner". That's his 22. . Scary accurate. I saw a 20 shot group at 200 yards that he shot. .83". Amazing. And that was with his peep sights. Combine that with his natural ability and he is unbeatable.....unless you hit him with a car. That slows him down a tad.....

JohnHenry wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 12:36 pm. And all Henry needs to do is make their 30-30 and .357 side loaders with a 24" barrel. But, at this time, shooters have to search for a suitable rifle. I just think lever gun would have more participation if the rifles were more. readily available.

Jim Luke

Henry has supported THIS sport immensely… When we asked them for 24” 22 and 22mags, they made them and I bought some as a thank you.

I have sent them multiple emails of thanks and requests to build 24” 357 and 30/30 with side gates.

I’d buy one of each on the come assuming they would be as nice as the rest of their rifles.

We bought Teresa one of their 20” 357 in hard chrome for CLA and it shoots very well. She likes it very much.

Old guns are old. Just like the rest of us. The barrel is central to their operation and if it has seen it’s better days, so has the rifle.

This is all for naught though. As I understand it the “silhouette committee” is no longer and there are only 2 people working in the entire competition department… There is no one to “make rule changes” or request it be considered.

I’m of the mindset if it looks like a duck then it’s a duck, if it take an archeologist and 3 “experts” to verify the lineage… it isn’t worth it.

What is correct, period correct? If you do a little investigation into Winchester history, “back in the day” they would build pretty much anything you wanted, barrel chambering, length, contour, wood, finish…. There are some odd ducks out there.

I have out shot people and been outshot by people. I have never in my life thought someone performed better then me because they had better equipment. They have practiced more, manicured their form better, controlled their variables better and mentally prepared better then I have that day. And you know what, nothing makes me happier then seeing someone perform well, even if that performance is better then mine. You can’t beat me, I’m rooting for you.

How in the hell do you people live up north where you can’t shoot all year long…. LOL.