200gr - Heavy Subsonic 357 Mag for 200M
Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:48 pm
A few shooters have commented on my load for Rifle Cartridge (200meter) Lever rifle, so here is my load info and a little extra information. This load works in my rifle, but might not be safe for your rifle, please use safe loading practices
L to R: 180gr Hornaday.357 - 200gr Sierra.358 - 180gr Speer.358 - 2 loaded Rounds to right are 38spl brass
please excuse the cut and paste job out of my PM's:
My load is with Sierra or Hornaday 200 grain round nose .358 cal bullet, Lee Tapper or factory crimp, most of the bullet is in the case.
Vihtavuori 3n38 powder, 7.0 grains and I use a CCI 550 magnum primer, the 500's didn't do so good. Starline cases.
Out of my 24" Win 1892, 1080 fps
Seating depth control seems to be the most critical, it can cause pressures to behave badly. I highly recommend, but expensive, the Redding spring loaded Micro adjustment competition seater for 357mag.
The 180 gr Speer does well with a little less recoil, but you are stuck with 38spl brass. I've actuality tried 38 Long Colt brass and it allows you to crimp on the grove, very cool looking but a bit of a headache feeding. I've not tested it as much for knockdown.
I’ve also tried a 200gr cast bullet from a place called Penn Bullets. Very nice guy.
6.0 grains of VV 3n38 powder but can probably take up to 7 grains.
This is from his website for his 200gr TC 357 bullets:
"12.5 grains of WW296 or H110 powder in .357 cases will make this bullet perform with accuracy of dime size groups at 25 yards. A superb performer!"
Another powder to try would be Hodgdon Lilgun, very forgiving for heavy bullet loads in 357 mag with top velocities and low pressures, but I've never actually tried it.
Winchester's are normally 1-18.75 and Marlin's are 1-16 and Rossi's are 1-30 twists. Winchester's and Marlin's should be okay, Rossi's probably should stick with 158's or below for the PC range.
I made a casting mold for a friend for the 357mag of a 216gr plain base bullet that he shoots subsonic at the rams, and has no trouble. I don't cast and don't like to deal with that stuff. I don't know his load but it is 5 or 6 grains of something and has no trouble with the rams.
I have only knocked down maybe 45-50+ 200 meter Rams with this load at Raton, My home club LASC and Phoenix so far, so it's not super tested. I of course used it also for Chicken through Turkeys with no problems, but I did ring one ram in Phoenix with a very low hit on the front leg. The animals in Arizona are resettables, so it some what common to ring an animal with a low leg hit, because of the pivot location on resettables. 30-30's will have trouble sometimes as well. Any free standing ram would have the leg normally kicked out from underneath it.
It's fun watching the rams get hit with the 200 gr bullets, you can actually see the bullet bounce off after it is done pushing the animal over. This tells me that most of the energy is used and transferring to the target to shove the animal over. This is because it is long and slow, so more dwell time on target. Most faster lighter bullets with weaker construction just "POP" on the target and very little of the energy gets transferred to the target to knock it over.
The 180 grain .357 "normal" bullets do very well, but with the same powder charge they actually go a little slower. I assume it is because they are .001 smaller in diameter and a little shorter, so less pressure build up.
Another person mentioned the need to be careful about using 38 spl in a 357 mag chamber, so please take notice, after shooting many rounds of 38 special in a 357 mag chamber, it will build a carbon ring at the mouth, it needs to be kept clean if you wish to go back and forth with shooting both in the same gun. Not sure how problematic this is in real life, the manufactures often advertise the fact that they both work in the same rifle. I would imagine that they would have all kinds of warning stickers every place on the gun, but who knows
I might go the 38 SPL route down the road and call it a forever 38 spl rifle or have the barrel set back a little and chambered for 38 spl.That would of course open a giant can of worms on our sport, so I would say...no.
Thanks, fellow flincher
Dennis Ostler, Southern California
L to R: 180gr Hornaday.357 - 200gr Sierra.358 - 180gr Speer.358 - 2 loaded Rounds to right are 38spl brass
please excuse the cut and paste job out of my PM's:
My load is with Sierra or Hornaday 200 grain round nose .358 cal bullet, Lee Tapper or factory crimp, most of the bullet is in the case.
Vihtavuori 3n38 powder, 7.0 grains and I use a CCI 550 magnum primer, the 500's didn't do so good. Starline cases.
Out of my 24" Win 1892, 1080 fps
Seating depth control seems to be the most critical, it can cause pressures to behave badly. I highly recommend, but expensive, the Redding spring loaded Micro adjustment competition seater for 357mag.
The 180 gr Speer does well with a little less recoil, but you are stuck with 38spl brass. I've actuality tried 38 Long Colt brass and it allows you to crimp on the grove, very cool looking but a bit of a headache feeding. I've not tested it as much for knockdown.
I’ve also tried a 200gr cast bullet from a place called Penn Bullets. Very nice guy.
6.0 grains of VV 3n38 powder but can probably take up to 7 grains.
This is from his website for his 200gr TC 357 bullets:
"12.5 grains of WW296 or H110 powder in .357 cases will make this bullet perform with accuracy of dime size groups at 25 yards. A superb performer!"
Another powder to try would be Hodgdon Lilgun, very forgiving for heavy bullet loads in 357 mag with top velocities and low pressures, but I've never actually tried it.
Winchester's are normally 1-18.75 and Marlin's are 1-16 and Rossi's are 1-30 twists. Winchester's and Marlin's should be okay, Rossi's probably should stick with 158's or below for the PC range.
I made a casting mold for a friend for the 357mag of a 216gr plain base bullet that he shoots subsonic at the rams, and has no trouble. I don't cast and don't like to deal with that stuff. I don't know his load but it is 5 or 6 grains of something and has no trouble with the rams.
I have only knocked down maybe 45-50+ 200 meter Rams with this load at Raton, My home club LASC and Phoenix so far, so it's not super tested. I of course used it also for Chicken through Turkeys with no problems, but I did ring one ram in Phoenix with a very low hit on the front leg. The animals in Arizona are resettables, so it some what common to ring an animal with a low leg hit, because of the pivot location on resettables. 30-30's will have trouble sometimes as well. Any free standing ram would have the leg normally kicked out from underneath it.
It's fun watching the rams get hit with the 200 gr bullets, you can actually see the bullet bounce off after it is done pushing the animal over. This tells me that most of the energy is used and transferring to the target to shove the animal over. This is because it is long and slow, so more dwell time on target. Most faster lighter bullets with weaker construction just "POP" on the target and very little of the energy gets transferred to the target to knock it over.
The 180 grain .357 "normal" bullets do very well, but with the same powder charge they actually go a little slower. I assume it is because they are .001 smaller in diameter and a little shorter, so less pressure build up.
Another person mentioned the need to be careful about using 38 spl in a 357 mag chamber, so please take notice, after shooting many rounds of 38 special in a 357 mag chamber, it will build a carbon ring at the mouth, it needs to be kept clean if you wish to go back and forth with shooting both in the same gun. Not sure how problematic this is in real life, the manufactures often advertise the fact that they both work in the same rifle. I would imagine that they would have all kinds of warning stickers every place on the gun, but who knows
I might go the 38 SPL route down the road and call it a forever 38 spl rifle or have the barrel set back a little and chambered for 38 spl.That would of course open a giant can of worms on our sport, so I would say...no.
Thanks, fellow flincher
Dennis Ostler, Southern California