• Squib

Posted: **Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:55 am**

I thank my Guardian Angel with making me realize something was amiss. The report was not as loud as the previous shots so a bore inspection was anticipated. Fortunately, it wasn't necessary to field strip the rifle. The squib made it to the muzzle and I was able to pull the bullet out with my finger and thumb. Had that been my first shot I may not have noticed.

I was practicing with my Winchester 1873 Sporter using what I determined to be the best all round factory load that won't damage my PC targets yet be able to knock them down with decent precision. It's 158 grain Geco 38 Special Jacketed Hollow Point.

I was told that weighing each round may not divulge a potential squib. So, I shall be more diligent from now on and hope the first bullet will reveal itself down range with a hit or miss.

Posted: **Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:00 am**

You got lucky. The air pressure of the round behind that one would have probably dislodged it being you were able to remove with your hands.

Have a friend who's brand new '73 in 32-20 he wasn't as lucky.... bulged 6" from the muzzle.

I stress that to my wife all the time. If the report doesn't sound right, stop.

Good times...

Posted: **Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:24 pm**

Two more squibs today. This time they just fizzled with no report. That's 3 out of 343 rounds.

Posted: **Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:25 pm**

Squib 3

Posted: **Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:34 pm**

is this geco (rws) ammo? if it is i would be sending them a email with pictures and not shoot anymore. i would call them first before the email just to let them know.

Posted: **Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:47 pm**

I would not shoot any of that ammo any more, and I would take the remaining stuff and run it across a scale to see how consistent the cartridges are.

This is slightly reminiscent of what happened yesterday with a friend. We were shooting .38-40s. His was loaded with a fairly full case of 4227 and a 180 gr cast bullet. It was leaving tremendous amounts of powder behind in the barrel and chamber. So much so that the necks of many cases were dimpled with the marks of granules of powder left behind from the previous shot. When shooting it my rifle, three times I stopped and checked to make sure the barrel had cleared the barrel, yet most shots landed on target 125 yds out. The soft shots did clear the barrel but I had to pour unfired powder out of the muzzle. Is this typical of 4227 with large pistol primers? My friend thinks it is lube contamination. I am doubtful.

Posted: **Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:21 pm**

frankmako wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:34 pm is this geco (rws) ammo? if it is i would be sending them a email with pictures and not shoot anymore. i would call them first before the email just to let them know.

It's 158 grain Geco 38 Special Jacketed Hollow Point. I sent a message to Geco experts.

Posted: **Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:55 pm**

BrentD wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:47 pm I would not shoot any of that ammo any more, and I would take the remaining stuff and run it across a scale to see how consistent the cartridges are.

This is slightly reminiscent of what happened yesterday with a friend. We were shooting .38-40s. His was loaded with a fairly full case of 4227 and a 180 gr cast bullet. It was leaving tremendous amounts of powder behind in the barrel and chamber. So much so that the necks of many cases were dimpled with the marks of granules of powder left behind from the previous shot. When shooting it my rifle, three times I stopped and checked to make sure the barrel had cleared the barrel, yet most shots landed on target 125 yds out. The soft shots did clear the barrel but I had to pour unfired powder out of the muzzle. Is this typical of 4227 with large pistol primers? My friend thinks it is lube contamination. I am doubtful.

I have been using 4227 in my .357 and for reduced load in 30-30 for several years with cast bullets and no issues. 4227 can leave a lot of soot residue but I have never experienced what you are describing nor have I heard this from others I know using the same powder.

Are you using a published load?

Posted: **Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:58 am**

BrentD wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:47 pm Is this typical of 4227 with large pistol primers? My friend thinks it is lube contamination. I am doubtful.

In low pressure loads YES. Either brand of 4227 is a slow burning rate magnum pistol powder. There are low pressure loads for 4227 for many cartridges on hodgdonreloading.com. I know one shooter that loves it in light 357 magnum loads for pistol caliber silhouette. I however have found very inconsistent velocity and accuracy with 4227 light loads.
4227 in the 357 magnum loaded to magnum levels is much better. However most match directors frown at folded chickens and perforated pigs.

Posted: **Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:15 am**

Davidmagnum,
Thanks for the note. I think it was 17 grs of 4227 - nearly a full case in the 38-40 according to the owner. It was a friend's rifle and his loads. I tried them in my rifle with the same result, however. They were definitely NOT magnum loads, but I would not think that is a light load either. So much unburned powder it was enough to interfere with loading and working the action.

Posted: **Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:05 am**

I've been using IMR 4227 in my Rossi 357 24" Octagon for a long time without any problems. Sounds like something is amiss either with the gun or the loads.
IMR 4227 13gr pushing a 125gr RN plated Reiner bullet works fine on Chk, Pig & Tky
ppkny

Posted: **Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:40 am**

ppkny -
It is not the rifle. My rifle has the same problem with his ammo. His rifle shoots my ammo (7 grs of Unique, 180 gr RCBS cast) just fine.

Posted: **Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:21 am**

My .357 load across all animals is 13.5gr of 4227 with a gas checked 158gr lead semi-wadcutter. This is a medium load for a .357.

I would suggest trying a different primer with the same lot of powder.

Posted: **Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:37 pm**

I'm using a similar load for Rams 7.5 gr Unique for a 158gr RN Reiner.
In both loads I use CCI small pistol primers
ppkny

Posted: **Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:40 pm**

G'day All
Our Aussie made ADI 2205, which is rebranded by Hodgden and sold as H4227, is quite popular down here in pistol cartridge loads. However, it is notorious for un-burnt powder and after one Nationals held at a range where there were benches in front of the firing line, there was enough un-burnt powder on the benches you could have swept it up and filled a powder can.
In my experience, reduced loads can be position sensitive and accuracy erratic. Crimping seems to help with powder burn, but still leaves some un-burnt powder. I gave up using it for these reasons and also the amount of crud that builds up in the action. YRMV.

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