Dustin,

That does make sense to me. It's just too bad it can't be stated in a simpler form.

Do we have to put you on retainer for legal opinions? Tee Hee!

Thanks,
Al

G'day All
I agree with Glen Ring about seeing a 4" pipe put down some vests. I've seen people wearing their vests strapped so tight they can barely bend over.
Ask them why they use the vest and the reply is always " it gives you much better support". Just sayin'.

Maybe just having that 4" piece of pipe at the range for a match would discourage some of this.Clearly marked "Vest Pipe"

At the smallbore nationals the topic of "Hardscrabble vests" for cowboy came up and the question was put to Greg Conner. He stated that since there is no definition of a heavy vest the 4" pipe rule would apply. Look at the rules, no thickness stated, no weight stated, no length stated, no material stated.
Sometimes I shoot with no vest, sometimes I shoot with cloth vest and sometimes with leather, can't see much difference if the 4" pipe rule applies. I believe trigger control is where it's at!

Popping this topic back up to the top of the list since I had a shooter at one of our local matches ask specifically about this over this past weekend...

The last reply on this topic was about a year ago, so I'm wondering if there has been any change in rules or behaviors at nationals this time around. The specific question from our local shooter was if he would be able to wear one of the standard leather Hardscrabble vests like everyone uses in smallbore rifle silhouette in the smallbore cowboy and pistol cartridge cowboy lever action rifle matches. His concern is that a vest is a fairly large expenditure for him and being able to use it in all the matches would likely be enough incentive to buy one. I was honest with my answer to him and said that I'm not the match director for the cowboy matches, but I don't wear my heavier leather silhouette vest because when I started shooting silhouette it wasn't allowed. I thought there may have been a rule change and a follow-up clarification, but I wasn't sure so I don't do it. With that said, I wouldn't protest anyone else doing it because they may know the rule better than I do. I actually don't even remember to bring my cloth/mesh shotgun vest to the cowboy matches most of the time, now that I think about it.

What's the latest official word here? If it's legal, I may start doing it so I only have one vest to remember for all of my silhouette matches and don't end up at the cowboy matches trying to move my stuff from one position to the next without any pockets big enough to carry any of it.

Jason,

They still are not allowed as far as I am concerned. None of the 165 shooters at the nationals this year were wearing heavy leather vests.

Al Foust

we might as well be debating 7-1/2s or 8s... Or are you an advocate of 9s?

Some will understand,



- Tim

cslcAl wrote:Jason,

They still are not allowed as far as I am concerned. None of the 165 shooters at the nationals this year were wearing heavy leather vests.

Al Foust

Thanks, Al. That's what I needed to know. Sounds like my stance on it won't change. I won't be wearing mine, but won't protest anyone else who does. I only shoot local cowboy matches anyway, so no one really gets all that uptight about things.

Tlee wrote:we might as well be debating 7-1/2s or 8s... Or are you an advocate of 9s?

Some will understand,



- Tim

8 1/2s for me.................

Screw the vest! I want to shoot with a 4" pipe stapped to my back.

Just to muddy it up or clear it up a bit more...

Is the Hardscrabble mesh vest with suede stiffening allowed? It's more support then a mesh only but no where near a small bore leather vest.

(don't wear any vest shooting CLA but might if it's a option)

When they changed the rule to allow shotgun type cloth vests I bought one of Chris Winsteads light bests. It's actually a Bob Allen shotgun v'est that Chris adds some additional leather to the right shoulder and in the front on the left side, where your left arm will lie.
I have seen MANY of these at Raton over the years since then. I really prefer it to the heavier one I have for HP and SB. It's a lot more comfortable to wear in hot weather.
I also never had anyone question mine or anyone else's that I know of.
Al Foust

That is what I assumed but since the topic was being resurrected I thought I'd ask.

Thanks!

I'd still like to see the 4" pipe come out! At all matches.

I was at the Nationals in 1998 when a friend of mine forced the issue and an announcement was made that the pipe was coming out. A mad scramble ensued with leather vests being adjusted. It was rather amusing to watch.