Jason wrote:Does anyone have any actual data on a "proposed" fee from the NRA for this? If you are basing it off the $4.50 fee and ending up with over $1000 per year, that's over 220 matches per year. Is there anyone who actually shoots that many silhouette matches per year? I think the point is valid and might be better made if you use realistic numbers.

Jason,
We just did a quick calculation but not knowing how they will base the actual fees and it is the open to speculation and one was it was per gun so we used that hoping it is the worse case;

Lever Gun 3 disciplines X $4.50 = $13.50 shooting twice per month = $27.00
SB - Hunter & Std $4.50 X 2 = $9.00 shooting twice per month = $18.00
HP - Hunter & Std $4.50 X 2 = $9.00 shooting twice per month = $18.00
Total per month = $63.00 X the 12 months we shoot = $756.00 PER YEAR
(Best case $324 on a per match regardless of the number of guns you shoot or around a 2400% increase over the $13.50 book we now use)

Now this doesn't include any other State matches you attend, out of state matches you attend or the Nationals.

Again all on speculation that it will be $4.50 per gun per match as we still haven't heard the real costs from the NRA yet, nor did anyone get a direct answer at the competitors meeting in Raton.

This is why I only have 40 posts. People read things into a post that don't apply.
The example of $4.50 for a fee was simply to illustrate what another shooting organization does. If I had to pay $4.50 per match to the NRA, I'd quit shooting matches altogether. In no way did I suggest paying $4.50 a match to the NRA.
It was simply to illustrate how easy it is to do everything electronically to save time and effort for both the shooter and the Match Director.

K Danz wrote:This is why I only have 40 posts. People read things into a post that don't apply.
The example of $4.50 for a fee was simply to illustrate what another shooting organization does. If I had to pay $4.50 per match to the NRA, I'd quit shooting matches altogether. In no way did I suggest paying $4.50 a match to the NRA.
It was simply to illustrate how easy it is to do everything electronically to save time and effort for both the shooter and the Match Director.

That number was not from your post, that is a number that was mentioned long ago along with a $6.50 number for larger matches. Again it's all speculation till the NRA tells us what the real number is and how it will work. Your right about one thing many people will give it up if those are what they propose, this is why there is concern and why everyone is seeking more information.

My guess is that the $13 fee for the book includes the cost of printing and distribution of the books as well as record keeping associated with the approved matches. If the NRA did charge a "per shooter per approved match" fee and it was around $1.00 to $1.50 or less, I'd probably just confirm with our club leadership (officers and board of directors) that we would take it from the existing $10 per shooter per match fee. If the NRA fee was more than that, we'd probably have to add it to the existing match fee. I currently expect to shoot about 40 to 50 total non-registered matches at most per year. I'd be OK with paying an extra buck or two per match to not have to deal with books at all and have all the classifications and results posted online. I'm not including registered matches, as those already include NRA fees.

Thanks for putting all those numbers out there as an example, Bob, but I have to say that my sympathy for someone who gets to shoot 168 matches per year, not even counting big matches, isn't exactly high. On a more serious note, shooters who shoot 100+ matches per year are in the very, very small minority of silhouette shooters and I don't really think the NRA should be designing a system around that minority. With that said, we're still trying to propose how to build a system on a foundation that likely has no basis in reality since we don't have the data from the NRA yet. We're halfway through the year and don't yet have the data on how the new system will work, which I think is a more pressing issue than guessing at a fee that might be charged as part of a new system.

Instead of continuing to beat this dead horse every so often, who can be an actual contact point to get any data that may currently be available from the NRA? I would rather actually do something than talk/type about it. As a match director, my biggest worry is about trying to implement a whole new system at the last minute and communicate it to the shooters that come to our matches.

Wow. Did not know that...........
One thing I forgot to mention about the Practiscore program. It was developed by some "geek" shooters who wanted an easier way to get scores into the EZWINSCORE program. It was done free of charge out of their pockets for a while. They do accept donations however......
After they proved that it would reliably post the correct scores, it was approved for official match use by USPSA for all local matches. It is also approved for all championship/major matches, but the larger matches also require a paper backup. In silhouette, that would mean your scorecard.
Again, knowing the NRA, it would probably "have" to be developed by the NRA and they would pay a ton of money to do it.

A couple of months ago I talked to Greg Connor about another topic. During that conversation I asked about the new classification system. He said it was to get it inline with the other shooting disciplines of the NRA and work with their online system that is going to be launched. That made sense to me.

I asked about additional per-match fees for using the online system. He said there had been no discussion about that and he didn’t see a reason they would have to.

We will see if that holds up. My guess is that everyone is getting all worked up over unsubstantiated rumors.

Joe

jloehle wrote:My guess is that everyone is getting all worked up over unsubstantiated rumors.

That's just an unsubstantiated rumor! We do NOT get worked up! Take it back!

I can't believe the NRA would go from $13 per year per shooter to $0.00 and take on more work. If you believe that will happen, I want some of what you are drinking.

All you poor match directors are way overworked for a monthly match. Enter a score in a book and send in a jury report. WOW!!!! I managed to do that for 15 years and NEVER complained that I was overworked. I guess you want to send in every score anyone shoots to the NRA and think that is going to be easier. I still say the system is NOT broken and doesn't need an overhaul.

Getting rid of the paper books and paper match report cards to go to online match reporting would actually make a lot less work for the NRA and no expense for printing and shipping the books and cards. Since there's no evidence that the NRA is going to add any additional charges per match, do you have any actual objections to the change other than that?

jloehle wrote: My guess is that everyone is getting all worked up over unsubstantiated rumors.

Joe

We have a shortage of substantiated rumors so we have to go with unsubstantiated rumors to get worked up over.

If you think the NRA is going to do less work and not charge you money for it then you are living in a dream! There is now way they will pass up a revenue stream!

We will be lucky to not have to pay an additional one time fee to convert from the current naming system to the new naming system. Then there will be the fee to convert from the books to electronic format, software maintence monthly fee and then finally an additional monthly match fee to maintain the new name change.

Jerry G wrote:I can't believe the NRA would go from $13 per year per shooter to $0.00 and take on more work. If you believe that will happen, I want some of what you are drinking.

All you poor match directors are way overworked for a monthly match. Enter a score in a book and send in a jury report. WOW!!!! I managed to do that for 15 years and NEVER complained that I was overworked. I guess you want to send in every score anyone shoots to the NRA and think that is going to be easier. I still say the system is NOT broken and doesn't need an overhaul.

_______________
I know I am NOT over worked with the present system. ONE HOUR or less a month is what I figure, counting money, fill out Registration Fee Report, fill out Jury Card, write a check, put all in a business size envelope and mail. The Classification books are no big deal either. At least one can verify right on the spot, if any questions.

What I dreaded up until 2014, was getting a NRA notice, not receiving my Jury Card or Fee Report with no $$money check. I would have to send proof every so often. It appears they have cleaned up that act last year.

I am open to change and can adjust as processing is only ONCE a month or 6 times a year for Tournaments. One acts as a DIRECTOR to ensure the NRA sport continues at the various clubs/ranges. We need new Directors at clubs that have lost them to take over and run as an NRA Discipline....etc. My .02 Jon PS: I always try and keep positive to the benefit and enjoyment of the sport!

Can't the jury report be filed on the net?

If you are doing 'club matches' that are 'approved', there is no money or scores to the NRA. Where is the work caused by the NRA system for those matches?

The NRA dropped this bomb on us with no plan. How can there NOT be rumors?

Jerry G wrote: The NRA dropped this bomb on us with no plan. How can there NOT be rumors?

Jerry, I think it is obvious that the NRA had a "let's hope it works out for the best" plan.

Nah I bet they have a thorough plan and a fee schedule all ready to go. They just aren't sharing it yet. It might be getting the final Okey dokeys and other approvals from up the NRA food chain.