curmudgeon wrote:I started shooting Silhouette in December. I don’t have anything to contribute to the discussion about the value of the NRA to the American silhouette community, but I can share some thoughts about why this new shooter continues to show up to local matches.

I like to learn; and there’s a lot for a new shooter to learn. When experienced competitors are willing to share their experience about ammunition, rifles, scopes and suppliers, and are willing to teach and coach shooting technique, then I learn more quickly and I want to come back for more.

I value the competitive camaraderie shared by the regulars and because of their warm welcome and inclusive behaviour I want to come back for more. They celebrated my 5 pin for pigs as much or more than a master shooter’s 10 pin.

I’m competitive by nature and enjoy competing with others in my class, but more importantly, with myself. I’m motivated to improve on my past scores and even though my overall scores don’t improve every match, there’s almost always some new “personal best” that I can celebrate after every match.

In my opinion, a handicap system is only valuable for trying to level the field for a match style competition. In general, many handicap systems reward inconsistent shooters over consistent ones. Acknowledging a handicap match winner wouldn’t improve the silhouette shooting experience for me, but although I’d think it unfair and meaningless, it wouldn’t be enough to keep me away either.

A handicap system will not attract new shooters, and IMO, is unlikely to have a positive effect on retention. Helping new shooters succeed by improving is more useful than fabricating meaningless “wins”.

Curmudgeon:

Bravo!!! Thanks for your post! YOU are the type of shooter we need to attract to silhouette shooting. We don't need "shooters, shooters, shooters." I believe we need shooters just like you who exhibit the same desires and goals that I had when I decided to get involved in this sport. It is far easier to retain shooters with this mentality than the ones who get involved for the proverbial "Friends, Family and Food" that some want to promote. On another point, when a new shooter has the goals of learning and improving they are less likely to devolve into the guy who comes to the match to get away from the old lady and blabber behind the firing line about meaningless topics.

Again, thanks for your post and good luck on becoming a better silhouette shooter in the future!

Apparently, I didn't do a very good job of explaining the purpose of a handicapping system. It's not to make a seismic change in the game, it's to get all the shooters involved. Most club matches don't have a ton of shooters. A handicap allows all the shooters to participate in leagues, tournaments and games that keep the matches interesting and keep people coming back. The raw scores are still there and people still pay attention to those. The local big dog will still get to crush the A and B shooters, if there are any around. It has given us a great side game here in Louisiana and we've had a lot of fun with it; but, again, to each his own. I've just about beat this handicap thing to death.

Jim T. wrote:Bravo!!! Thanks for your post! YOU are the type of shooter we need to attract to silhouette shooting. We don't need "shooters, shooters, shooters." I believe we need shooters just like you who exhibit the same desires and goals that I had when I decided to get involved in this sport. It is far easier to retain shooters with this mentality than the ones who get involved for the proverbial "Friends, Family and Food" that some want to promote. On another point, when a new shooter has the goals of learning and improving they are less likely to devolve into the guy who comes to the match to get away from the old lady and blabber behind the firing line about meaningless topics.

Jim T. wrote:YOU are the type of shooter we need to attract to silhouette shooting. We don't need "shooters, shooters, shooters." I believe we need shooters just like you who exhibit the same desires and goals that I had when I decided to get involved in this sport.

So, what your saying is that you only want to see shooters on the line that think like you do, that look like you do, that have the same desires and goals that you do. That mentality is really going to attract a lot of new shooters...

Dustin

Innocent wrote:Today parents are looking for babysitters, "what time do i drop him/her off for practice, what time do I have to pick them up?". Everyone knows that f Mom is happy then the house is peaceful. Wake up.

Mary, you made my point for me. If at least one parent is not involved, they aren't going to have much interest in getting their kids to a match. If we want young shooters to stick around, we better get the parents involved. BOTH the dads and the moms! We only have a couple of local regulars that are juniors, but even though both have their own vehicles, it is VERY rare that one of them shows up to a match without their parents.

Kids lose interest in things as they move on through life; they tend to come and go.

This is all pretty-much moot; clubs should be doing all they can to attract all kinds of new shooters and make sure everyone is comfortable and having fun at matches; men, women and kids alike.

Dustin

Yeah guys the handicap system we run locally is run in ADDITION to the normal match scoring. It isn't until the end of the match that any shoot offs are done for handicap placing and only after any official match shoot offs are held.

So basically you get to compete in TWO different type leagues at the same time. The one where you can beat your other B-Master shooters and better your personal scores. And the one where shooting good in AA puts you in a shoot off with a AAA or Master shooter but on your classes animal not just Turkeys.

It gives the lower level shooters with low numbers more opportunities to be involved in shoot offs as well which is great practice.

Oh and if you win the Normal NRA Match you get squat but bragging rights. If you win the club championship you actually win something. So why would anyone not want to compete locally? Literally all you have to do is show up and shoot the same match you already are shooting anyway and then shoot in any tie breakers.

As for the online scoring and ranking that could easily be done in no time with a minimal annual fee to cover the server space to host the website. I have a friend that will do it cheap and even create the database interface. Make it simple and slick. I just can't promise the NSA won't know your overall ranking or shooting averages


Dee

OK, I've read and re-read the posts people have made here. I'll add my feedback:

1) The NRA is just a governing body. It may have been more active in the past, however, there are other shooting sports with a lesser governing body and they're doing OK. Take for instance Airgun Field Target, the AAFTA (governing body) is very hands off as there really isn't any records, no 'pins',etc, and yet they have a following. Side note: I shoot (or used to) Field Target, however, my current club will not let me start a club because their 'airguns'. Dee, I know you shot FT in the past. Back on this point, should let them do what they do.

2) We have to ask ourselves why are most shooters 50+ ? OK, there are some youngsters and some in their 20's-30's, but not many. Could it be the changing of our society? To find this we need to question those that visited once and didn't return. Most MD's have their emails, perform a survey.

3) We are not an 'action' shooting sport. This is a continuation of #2. Is it possible were not an action sport (no running to the next station) and quick shots like IDPA or USPSA. Can't change here, this sport is what it is, a standing shooting discipline.

4) Why do some clubs have a larger turnout than others? Could it be demographics? I think this has a lot to do with it as I'm willing to be the clubs in the deep South (AL, LA, GA, TX) may be the largest. Side note: our club draws 5-6 SB shooters at a match, while the Lever Action (SB-CLA, PC-CLA) draws 20+.

5) What can we improve upon? Yes, there has to be something we can improve upon as if we were perfect, there'd be many more shooters? It can't be the clubs/individual members as there are too many clubs. Can it be the targets? This goes back to the second-half of my response on #4. Our club has more shooters for the Cowboy Lever Action (SB-CLA, PC-CLA) than SB (Hunter and Standard). Is it the type of weapons (are levers more prevalent)? Smallbore ammo is the same. Could it be the SB (hunter&standard) targets? Has anyone seriously thought that the targets are incorrectly sized for todays society? Now many of you will reply and say that 'if I can do it...' then fine, maybe the sport should wither away. I, personally, like them and accept the challenge. The point I'm trying to make here is: would you be willing to sacrifice and change target size (ie change from 1/5 to 1/4 size) to flourish the sport? If you answer no, then, you may have your answer as to where the sport is going.

Bottom line (like most of America) could we be looking for an easy, quick fix? Or a slow steady list of improvements?

I keep telling everyone the key to getting more people is Hooters Girls in bikinis doing the target resets. The match fees would have to go up a lot though. Plus guys would leave the women at home with the kids so we might actually have a chance to win! Win Win Win

You might not knock over more animals but I guarantee you will be spending a lot more time on the spotting scope... umm.... reading the conditions between relays! And you wouldn't even care if they were slow.


Dee

Maybe we need to change the 1/5 scale CPTR to 1/4 scale zombie targets to attract the younger crowd?

caseyboy wrote:Maybe we need to change the 1/5 scale CPTR to 1/4 scale zombie targets to attract the younger crowd?

Funny thing you say that. We have a member at BRI that runs a "fun" shoot. 4 teams, seeded by random draw, at least one pistol shooter, all 4 shoot at their chosen animal at the same time till all the animals are down, team that clears all 40 animals the quickest wins. Rifles have to be 22 or 22mag, pistols what ever you want, unlimited shots. It actually attracts 20-40 shooters every month.

Our HP numbers have gone up in the last few months. I have had to change our state match format as a result. I am not sure if the after match cold brew is bringing them in, or the cash incentives at the state is responsible. I hope it is a windy weekend or else I will be out some serious cash! Bring on the fun.

http://www.co-silhouette.blogspot.com/

Bob...I think you are getting more hp-shooters because no one can find any 22lr ammo...

No ammo problems here, we are still pulling in good monthly SB numbers with new faces all the time. Some of our SB shooters are trying and loving the HP game. Can't blame them.

Thats great !! Glad you have the turn out makes the shooting so much better for us with all the new shooters.

Dustin,

I decided that I would add some observations about the silhouette sport in general. I started shooting high power rifle silhouette in 1978 and attended my first Nationals in Raton in 1979 I believe. Just so you know at that time there was no such thing as hunter rifle and the rules for standard rifle were pretty much the same as we use today. If my memory is correct there were well over 350 entry to the Nationals that year. There are a lot of reasons that attendance at matches have fallen but I can tell you as I have watched the sport over the last 36 years every time we change the rules we loose a few more shooters. As an example I purchased a factory Anschutz 22 light rifle at the Nationals in 1984, at the start of the 1985 season the light rifle class was changed to hunting rifle and my new gun was no longer legal. This is just one example of the many changes that have cost competitors thousands of dollars in what turned out to be useless equipment cost. Add to this the increased cost and just outright lack of availability of components such as bullets, powder, primers, and rimfire ammo. Out of my 36 years of involvement with silhouette I have run matches for 17 of those years. I wish I knew what to do to provide an answer to the many question posted to this board, but I have tried everything I can think of and still was not able to substantially increase attendance.

Good luck

Paul Freeman

Paul, I thought they change the light rifle to hunter rifle some time in the 90s. I am probably wrong on that. I have been trying to get all the rule changes from the NRA and I get no answer back from them. I would really like to have that history of our sport.

You are correct about the rule changes. Seems for awhile there were big changes every year. I couldn't keep up with all of them.

Paul, what a great write up and I agree. Rule changes to encourage shooters is not the answer.

I can tell you if silhouette ever changes the rules so any of my rifles are illegal (such as what happened years ago with Chin guns, etc) that is it, I am done. Even sports like IHMSA, Action Pistol, USPSA have had rule changes but guns you shot in the 80s are still legal today. They have expanded with other classes that today maybe more popular than the old ones but old guns are still legal.


Greg