I wasn't going to post again and I wish I had kept my big mouth shut in the first place but it's amazing what flattery will do.
So far it looks to me like much heat but litttle light. If we are going to complain we need to get more specific. At the moment it looks as if all we have is "Greg Connor is the wrong man for the job." I've got to admit I'm sorry to hear that because Greg has always been gracious and helpful in my dealings with him. A wise man told me years ago that: "If you're going to BE in charge, make sure you TAKE charge." Making decisions is Greg's job. Some of them are going to be wrong. I'm sure lots of things have happened about which I know nothing. I'm not arguing, just trying to explain my general attitude. Not sweating the small stuff is important in most situations. I'm not saying I'm good at it. Sure, the stuff looks a bit larger when it's happening to you.
Had there been no windstorm, how much better would we feel about this Nationals? Maybe it would help if we put complaints about the handling of that problem in a separate box for the moment.
We've got the trophies vs. NRA points issue. I agree that trophies are important to new folks, young and old. My little trophy from '02 (7th, AA, HP Standard, one match) is kinda important to me just because it's from the Nationals.
Then, I guess we have a broad area of gripes that sound something like "Half-hearted, semi-competent organization in general, including delegation of duties to people who seem to know nothing about the sport." Maybe this is the area to get more specific. I don't think we get anywhere leaving it at that.
I'm pushing 60 years old. In what seems like another life, I did motorcycle road racing for 14 years. I did a lot of endurance racing with a team including twin brothers from Houston, Gerold and Earl Smith. They were very modest, unassuming people who happened to be terrific athletes. I found out by accident that they had run the Dallas Marathon and asked them their times. They had both broken 2:50 and I didn't even know they were runners! They had never mentioned it. Gerold had gone to Honolulu and run THAT marathon in 3:07 the next weekend!
Anyway, they decided one year to make one of the major AMA professional races either in Pocono, PA or Loudon, New Hampshire, I forget. They somehow get two TZ 250 Yamahas and their tools and gear in a van and drive more than halfway across the country. They arrive on a Thursday and it's raining. No prob, AMA road races are run rain or shine. But they need rain tires to qualify on Friday, so they buy and mount about $500 worth of tires. This is in the early 80's.
Friday it rains so they risk their necks slithering around and get qualified. Saturday, it rains and people start to notice that the grandstands are near empty. "Dont worry," says the AMA. "The show will go on."
Sunday, it's raining. My friends are sitting in a garage when one of the greats, a Southern Boy named Dale Singleton happens by. "Dale, there's a hundred people in the stands. They must have pre-sold at least a couple thousand tickets. Whadda you think is gonna happen?"
"Well, boys," says Dale. "Obviously somebody is gonna have to bend over and grab their ankles on this one. You tell me. Will it be the fans or the AMA or the riders?"
Gerold and Earl looked at Dale and then at each other and started loading the van. When the race was officially cancelled about noon, they were ready to hit the road. Broke, but with some nice, new rain tires.
"Good Lord," says I. "How did you keep from commiting suicide?" They just laughed. "We've got some family in Michigan so we just swung over there for a little visit on the way home. It wasn't so bad."
I really admired those guys. Wonder what they're up to now. Bet they're having fun.

I think the number of trophies in any class should be determined by the number of competetors in each class averaged over the last several years. 10 for each class is a bit much. Just for the hell of it lets say that the top 10 or 15% should get trophies and the rest nothing.

Anybody that has run matches in windy country has a better solution than shooting swingers. A little masking tape and a fresh coat of paint on each animal works well. Usualy the tape will break but if it doesn't, the hit will show up on the fresh paint. You don't need one man checking all the targets either.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Kitty, rather than sending a petition with signatures it would be better if we send individual letters with our names, signatures and NRA membership numbers. Make them short and to the point, most important not to only say what is wrong but offer solutions to the problems. You may want to send them directly to Greg's boss or to Dr. David E. Bennett, III, who I believe still is the Chairman of the Silhouette Committee.

When petitions with signatures are received or even whole packages of letters with suggestions are turned in to Greg at the Nationals they are lumped together and assigned one number on their list of items to discuss at the NRA'S yearly meeting and it is easy for them to dismiss the thing and not take any action on the other hand every individual letter is also assigned a number and they have to read and Greg has to reply to each one of them, just my two cents.

To the new shooters. I and my 10 yo boy attended the Nationals mainly this year because it was only 2 hours from my house. If was our first big match and enjoyed it alot.

That being said, numbers of shooters in this sport seems rather low and could be higher. The NRA in my opinion is not an advocate of this sport. Seems to me they are only begrudgingly doing this for PR on the political end. To put it simply they need shooting sports and competitors to survive and continue the political fight. I do not fault them for that as they do have a large fight ahead and always will. I do fault them for the lack of efforts to grow this sport as well as others, or at least put some more exposure in the other magazines. Do they announce the winners or promote the sport in American Rifleman? NO!!

It seems to me that a new organization for this sport could make it flourish or rip it apart. That is a gamble. The big question now is will the NRA listen. That might be the only way to tell all of us how to proceed.

Kevin

Since I am new to this my dog in this fight is small. But as a newbie I can tell you how it appears outwardly and I would think many others new to the sport might see things the same. Regarding petitioning the NRA and the best road to take I will go along with whatever those more knowledgable about such dealings think is the proper course of action at this time to try and rectify the current issues. The above post mentions individual appeals and I think that is the best route but maybe do that in addition to a mass petition form letter style they are so fond of using for those that will do simple things but not take the time to write a letter themselves.

Anyway I have new silhouettes to paint and deface I am outta here my finger itches

Dee

I have been at the last three nationals, for better or for worse.......None of the nationalos to date have delivered on the promise of declaration of delivering a true national champion. I don't mean to take away from the current nationl chamion, but a all out run what you brung championship is far from what we saw...........IMHO it's time to be agressive in what we want to settle on as a national champion..............Let's belly up to the bar and let it go...

Kitty

Good News! The Midsouth Classic, scheduled for Sept. 15-16 in Arkansas, will be accepting those NRA Award Points you may have received at Raton (or elsewhere) with your entries to our tournament. Remember, 1 NRA Award Point = $1 towards entry fee.

Also, I would like to lob from the sidelines the following comment: Greg Connors has gone out of his way to help me every time I have asked him for something and I appreciate all his hard work, even if some people do not agree with him 100% of the time.

OK, I'm ducking back for cover now!

Deguello wrote:OK, I'm ducking back for cover now!

Aw, c'mon, stand up and take it like a Ram...

To those that have mentioned how supportive Greg Conner has been to them...give it time, run matches for many years ( I go back as far as 1978 in Florida), shoot in multiple nationals, you too will run into the incompetence.

Mary

All I know is that when I started looking for a rimfire sport for me and my boys to get involved in, I did not find the information from the NRA, it was a website from a guy in AZ. If I didnt find that page I wouldnt be here.

Thanks whoever you are.

Kevin

Good point, Kevin. I had the same experience couple of years ago.

jneihouse wrote:I have been at the last three nationals, for better or for worse.......None of the nationalos to date have delivered on the promise of declaration of delivering a true national champion. I don't mean to take away from the current nationl chamion, but a all out run what you brung championship is far from what we saw...........IMHO it's time to be agressive in what we want to settle on as a national champion..............Let's belly up to the bar and let it go...

Kitty

I have read this post several times and am confused. How would you determine a "true" national champion? This years champions have won this competition several times. They fired the highest scores, in the same range conditions as every other competitor. What else is required? How else would we "settle" on a national champion?

No I haven't been to the nationals. A few months back, in SSUSA, the head of competitive shooting asked for endowment money. Why? It seems that it is a really big problem to the NRA big-wigs that shooting programs "lost" a million dollars last year! Probably two million folks renew yearly or give $$ for a multi year membership each year. THe NRA is saying that fifty cents out of each member who paid toward competitive shooting is too much a cross to bear. The rest naturally follows...

Tony, I amend my earlier commet to agree with you, lets all write letters. No witch hunt, just state the facts and how those facts affected you.

I also agree with AJJ and others about the helpfullness of Greg Connors....Greg has always been helpful until it becomes an inconveniece to him. Example.....I shot photos for 6 days at this year's Nationals to use in stories for the NRA's publications.....I made several "press" requests of the stat house and they were all granted......by Greg's staff. I even ended up helping the stat office....no problem, they helped me.....On the last day (which by the way was 85 degrees and low humidity), after I had set up the shots for the winners of the different crowns in High Power, King Greg comes out from his castle and changes the setup. He moved the awards table to a combination of shade and sun and there was a bench(immovable) between the shooter (me) and the subject.......I came forth and explained we needed a better stage to shoot from, assuming since it is the NRA publications that will run the photo's and stories that I would receive cooperation....A discussion ensued in which I was told that I would receive no consideration (Greg would have had to stand in the HOT sun for 30 minutes) and that was that. I accepted that and moved my chair to the shade with some of my friends......A later suggestion from Greg and his council would have changed things, but, me being human, I was pissed off and not about to come out of the shade.....In other words, Greg is helpful so long as what you ask is within the parameters of what he wants to do. Other than that, go fish...........

Kitrty

Tony, I amend my earlier commet to agree with you, lets all write letters. No witch hunt, just state the facts and how those facts affected you.

Kitty and Charlie...
This started out as a grip page and has been taken to the point of witch hunt. There are several things to consider here.
1) Greg Conner and Pat French and Jon??? are paid employees, not volunteers running a match. Greg Conner is paid to promote and encourage the sport of silhouette shooting. His salary comes from our NRA dues, entries and match fees from registered tournaments.

2) While the line officers, scorers and target setters (tips were paid to the target setters)and other stat help were also paid, their payment was extremely nominal ($30.00 a day and lunch on the day it hailed).

I agree that individual letters need to be written but my point of the entire posting here is that sending them to Greg Conner is talking to a block wall, he has done and continues to do things at the nationals that annoy people to the point of not wanting to return (CWS being one) thus causing decline in participation. He does not compete and to my knowledge has never shot silhouette.
Let us not forget that the NRA is our club, not a bureaucracy that the current adminstration is guiding it to be. Make ourselves heard to the point that someone either starts doing the job to full capacity that it can be done or change it.

Mary

BTW I have been a very strong supporter of the Friends of NRA (NRA Foundation)for the last twelve years, two years ago while researching for a grant request in a masters class I found out what Wayne LaPierre personally was paid out of that fund alone in 1999 as an adminstraitor. I am not involved in running any Friends of NRA event this year. I do not want to dig out the information as to the discipline directors salaries at the NRA, it will surely disgust me.