• Best cartridge for silhouette

Posted: **Tue May 01, 2012 10:03 am**

I would say that also since there are constructed of a less britle alloy they would tend to smush up more instead of breaking up like the harder alloy would do thus imparting a greater precentage of the available energy to the steel..I like those 162 A-Max's alot I plan to use them in my 7mm br the 105 A-Max's also were very good performers in my 6mm br had no failure to knock the animals down with those either.

Posted: **Tue May 01, 2012 12:40 pm**

malinois wrote:I would say that also since there are constructed of a less britle alloy they would tend to smush up more instead of breaking up like the harder alloy would do thus imparting a greater precentage of the available energy to the steel.

malinois,

That sounds good, but is not so. A 3%/97% antimony/lead alloy bullet will have a longer dwell time than a pure lead bullet when both strike the rams at the same velocity. Antimony/lead alloys become frangible (brittle) when the alloy content is above 11%, but below that the antimony adds toughness to cast bullets or jacketed bullet cores.

Years ago I heat-treated 6mm, 107-gr SMK's that had 3% antimony cores according to Sierra. Optimum temp was 400 F for one hour followed immediately by quenching in cool tap water. The difference in carefully controlled live-fire tests on rams was substantial with the heat-treated bullet performing much better at knocking them down. We could even hear the difference back on the line. I was the only one firing during the testing so hearing the clangs in totally calm conditions was easy. The heat-treated bullets made a louder clang than the non heat-treated bullets and knocked down over twice as many rams. The rams were shot off-the-bench using an 8-twist, 6BR rifle and all were hit just behind the front leg, low in the belly. The stands and animals were all new and made to spec by guys that did that sort of work professionally.

.I like those 162 A-Max's alot I plan to use them in my 7mm br the 105 A-Max's also were very good performers in my 6mm br had no failure to knock the animals down with those either.

Posted: **Tue May 01, 2012 3:41 pm**

DanDeMan wrote:Guys and Gals,

I thought I'd add that Bob Mc Alice's bullet sectioning and his graciously posted pictures predicted some of the bullet-smashing results. His picture of the SST bullet's jacket sure predicted the smashing test results.

Aw shucks Dan, it was nuthin. I am eating lots of gummy bears and my finger nails are growing back like weeds.

Nice informative picture of the smashed bullets. It does show who is king of the hill in terms of strength. Knowing you this was not done with vise grip pliers wielding a ten pound hammer.

Got any unclassified pictures of the Smasher to show us? I guess repeating the test with 6.5 bullets would be pointless. The results would be near the same. That SST or super shock tip should mean Super Silhouette Tough instead.

Time for another Hornady family portrait. I got in a bunch more of the rejects yesterday. This time many were seconds instead. I can not find anything wrong with any. No visible defects, weights are good. Price fantastic. I work with a guy that has family not far from the plant. It is an easy pick up for him on his way home. Included in the haul was the 154 SST and some 162 Amax bullets. Even some 6.5's for Bonners CPT practice loads.

Posted: **Tue May 01, 2012 4:25 pm**

Bob,

The 6.5mm bullet-smashing test will commence once some cross-country bullet samples are in-house.

I figured a geek or three would ask for classified information about the Ballistic Bullet Smasher. So, in anticipation some pics were snapped whilst the Brass wasn't looking.

I like simple solutions and this one is about as simple as it gets.

Materials needed:

1 gate hing
1 2"x4"x6'
1 2"x4"x1'
1 old drill chuck
1 bolt that will thread into drill chuck
1 fender washer
1 10 lb weight
1 steel plate for the bullets to smash into
1 short shank just under 6.5mm to support bullet-base in chuck so only the back of the bullet is held by the chuck
1 short shank just under 7.. to support bullet-base in chuck so only the back of the bullet is held by the chuck

The bottom of the Smasher is held 5 ft above the ground and let go. Gravity is pretty consistent over here, so the bullets get a consistent smash into the steel plate. I catch the Smasher on the rebound so it does not hit the plate again.

Here are a few pics that should tell the complete story.

Hing

Drill Chuck Against Angle Iron (steel plate)

Weight, Fender Washer and Bolt

The Big Picture

Posted: **Tue May 01, 2012 6:40 pm**

That thing looks like some medieval times barbaric bullet killing device.

Quite frankly, I expected something much more sophisticated from an engineer type such as your self. I mean rust on the chuck? Really? Some thing with hoses, belts, springs, meters, wires, cameras, recording devices, etc. You know..Myth Busters style.

On the positive side, looks cheap and easy to make. Something every serious gun crank should have.

Posted: **Tue May 01, 2012 6:52 pm**

Dan,

Any idea if the JLK bullets under went a change in material construction from the time you were shooting them in 95 until the time Jimmy Knox retired? Reason I ask is that just before he retired I got close to 4000 of his bullets in 180gr 7mm.

Posted: **Tue May 01, 2012 7:10 pm**

Bob,

The Smasher's been in its current location for about 17 years now. That is the original dill chuck from my very first electric drill. Its been in service since 81. The first Smasher was built in 81 in Fla. Use a tight hing to keep the 2 x 4 from "listing" on its way down. And, of course use a very straight 2 x 4.

Back in Fla when trying to come up with a method to cheaply and reliably test bullets for toughness, for my XP-100 chambered in that wimpy 7TCU round, I was scratching my head whilst loading ammo in my shop (combo bicycle mechanic shop and gun loading room) I saw an old gate hing sitting in a box of junk. The proverbial light turned on, so off to the bullet smashing I went. That medieval bullet torturing device has smashed a ton of jacketed and cast bullets over the years. When trying to determine how low of a temp I could use to anneal SMK's, the Smasher was used to see when the heat-treating stopped; the bullets would be smashed more when heat-treating didn't work due to too low of a temp. I figured the lowest temp that heat-treating occurred would distort the bullet the least. It did. If anyone whats to anneal SMK's, a 1 hour soak at 400 F followed by immediately quenching in cool tap water with do it.

Posted: **Tue May 01, 2012 7:22 pm**

Troy G wrote:Dan,

Any idea if the JLK bullets under went a change in material construction from the time you were shooting them in 95 until the time Jimmy Knox retired?....

Troy,

I don't know if the new owners have changed the jacket material, cores or bullet designs. I've not ordered any from the new owners. The last 3 boxes I have of the 180's were made in 95. They shot marvelously and were smacking rams like no other loads on the line back then.........Hey, now that you've got me thinking, I think I'll sacrifice s few for science.

"Torquemada, let the torturing begin on the heathen JLKs"...back a bit later with the gory details of the torture victims from the 2012 Bullet Inquisition.

Posted: **Tue May 01, 2012 7:38 pm**

Dan,

The JLK bullets I have were made by Jimmy in the early 2000s, not the present owner, Steven Milholland. I cannot remember now when Jimmy retired.

Posted: **Tue May 01, 2012 7:53 pm**

DanDeMan wrote: If anyone wants to anneal SMK's, a 1 hour soak at 400 F followed by immediately quenching in cool tap water with do it.

Dan, I did that awhile back and the accuracy was not as good afterwards. I am thinking that the lead core expands and maybe is not as concentric during the process since they are lying flat on their sides when the lead gets soft. I did the same to some 175 SGK and the lead tips separated about 1/8" or more from the jacket. Would have been a good idea to cut them in half after annealing to find out why they were not as accurate as before but it did not occur to me at the time. The only thing I know is that I am not going to be annealing bullets any time soon.

Posted: **Tue May 01, 2012 8:11 pm**

Troy,

I smashed a few 7mm, 180-gr JLKs. No wonder they were working so well. They are mighty tough; as tough as the 177 Cauterucio 7mm bullets. Here's a pic.

--------------------177 Caut------180 JLK-------175 SMK

Posted: **Tue May 01, 2012 8:15 pm**

I tried to bake some Berger bullets as well with the same results, Tony. My jackets got some wicked color to them like a really nice patina on a high end kitchen knife. I had no idea what I was doing but had read about Dan cooking bullets and had to give it a try for myself.

Posted: **Tue May 01, 2012 8:16 pm**

lone ringer wrote:.....Dan, I did that awhile back and the accuracy was not as good afterwards.

Tony,

I built a special aluminum bullet tray that held the bullets pointing straight up during the entire process. Accuracy went from 1/4 MOA pre heat-treatment to about 3/4 MOA after heat-treating. SGK's can't be heat-treated due to only 1% antimony in the cores, at least in the late 90's.

Troy,

IIRC Bergers don't have any antimony in the cores, like the Cauterucios.

Posted: **Wed May 02, 2012 11:47 am**

Er ....

I'm not sure that crushing projectile reveals very much empirically although it appears entertaining and begs the question ...isn't shooting them better than smashing? Impact velocity, material homogeneity, material adhesion, weight and temperature at impact all bear on "toughness'....That word "toughness" is a relative term...for us it means projectile dwell time (before it breaks up) and hence it efficient transference of its energy so as to knock my Ram off its pads. Any other assessment of "toughness" is meaningless for our game.
So Dan, you smash bullets ... Dr. Mcalice would be proud ;)

Posted: **Wed May 02, 2012 3:13 pm**

Well Snake,

After 31 years of correlating the results of Bullet Smash Testing to ram knock-down performance; I just might have a wee bit more insight than most about whether or not my smash testing is meaningless with regards to predicting bullet performance on rams. Snake, you just hit a whole lot of air with that swing....woooossshhhh. This method of Bullet Smash Testing has correlated positively with ram knock-down performance 100%. And, I might add, using this method to ascertain whether or not a bullet is a good candidate for rams is highly efficient and effective, unlike live-fire testing. I, and numerous others know, that live-fire testing is fraught with uncontrollable variables that can skew test results; inconsistent hit location, inconsistent wind, inconsistent rams (bowed, size differences, ect.)

By-the-by, dude, you's guys have a nice facility in MO, just checked-out your web page. Say hi to my old shooting buddy O'Malley.

Best cartridge for silhouette

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