Page 2 of 3
Re: I love this game but boy do I stink at it!
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:45 pm
by 1stlttightwad
Dee wrote:Archimedes findings play a roll in weight distribution but Pythagoras dictates more to me where my non shooting hand gets placed on the stock. I actually prefer a little further out down the forearm to place my split finger hold as it gets my arm/elbow in tighter to my body. All ranges are different some with racks stacked one over the other and some with the entire banks on straight rails, some shooting up and down due to the topography of the range. When I shoot the ones stacked I find a definite need to move my hand position on the stock slightly to allow for my natural settle point to come to a rest along that plane. Just like L/R NPA adjustment it is a vertical NPA that you don't want to be fighting either to get onto the animal. Regardless of where my hand ends up I hold the stock with the same dead hand stick technique and split fingers. Mind you this is not a whole lot of movement up and down the stock to adjust but I find it is something I need to pay attention to closely. This also prevents me from having to use the butt of the rifle to change the angle so that my shoulder spot and check weld are never changed.
Should also add the I use the front of the trigger guard all the time as a reference point to align my fingers under the stock a set distance based of the tip of my thumb against the gaurd. Once I do that if I am someplace I need to scoot down the forearm a tad it doesn't take long to get a feel for how much it needs to go further down and becomes easily repeatable so long as you remember to add that little extra push down the forearm.
Dee
However, the question was shooting a light rifle..The only way to make a light rifle feel heavier and therefore more stable is to change the position of the lever(s)..It takes more effort(heavier feel) to move a rifle with the hand closer to the receiver than one stretched farther out. I do agree in part of which you are saying..I have never shot vertical racked silhouette targets, only the side by sides..Where if you were contending with vertical problems the positioning would differ from the side by side...Thanks for your input....Dave Deo Vindice
Re: I love this game but boy do I stink at it!
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:18 am
by Dee
You can't make a rifle heavier by doing nothing. You can give yourself the perception of a heavier front end if you hold more rifle sticking out the end but the rifle is still the same weight. All this does IMO is create a longer arm that becomes increasingly unwieldy as the distance from the fulcrum to the moment increases. So the weight distribution is shifted to give the illusion of more weight but you sacrifice some stability because you have made the lever longer. The effort involved or perceived to make the barrel move when being choked up on the stock is not a issue if you don't use that hand to try and put the sights on the target to begin with. That is the whole point of NPA both Horizontal and Vertical, to get the shooter into a relaxed position where the sights natually rest in the general area of the target without any muscles working to get it there. I feel the non-shooting hand and arm should be a static rest once position has been established.
I have tried the super choked up hold, the wrap around the trigger guard hold, the reversed palm under the stock all the way back to the guard, the finger tips on the stock and guard and they all give me the feeling that I am leading a Orchestra with the end of my barrel. As with anything I guess it is best to try several techniques and use the ones that fit you and your style closest. I see some damn good shooters using that finger tip technique but it just doesn't work for me.
Dee
Re: I love this game but boy do I stink at it!
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:48 am
by tenx9
We'll go one more time. I've seen shooters with the most God-awful shooting positions become masters and shooters with picture perfect technique that couldn't hit a bull in the butt with a shovel. Position is the beginning. Its helps, but its not the endall. Its trigger pull, follow through and eye/trigger pull coordination. The first 2 you can develop, the third your born with. Ever see the newbie who after 2 or 3 matches is now beating your scores? You think thats shooting position? You think he's practicing more than you? Maybe he got positional instruction from Lones Wigger? Sorry, not the case. He's or she's just wired to shoot better than you. After breaking your butt to make AA, this guy waltz's in after a match or two he's AAA. Well, accept it, move on, and be glad he's out of your class so maybe you can win it the next time. Funny line from the movie Caddy Shack, "The world needs ditch diggers too." How true.
Re: I love this game but boy do I stink at it!
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:23 am
by Dee
It all boils down to whatever works best for each individual. But no I have never seen someone move up to AAA after only a match or two since it takes 3 AAA scores to move up
We have a new shooter that has excelled very quickly compared to most newbies and I attribute that to his motivation to do well and a lot of practicing in the short time he has been shooting silhouette. Not to mention his eagerness to learn all he could from the beginning and embracing spotting etc from those shooters that have experience to share.
Dee
Baby Patuey??
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:41 am
by hambone49
Whoa, like this kid's head needs to be any bigger?? I will vouch for his competitivness. He almost tore the clubhouse doors off the hinges on Sunday after I kicked his ass 5 times in a row, including an especiallly gruesome scratch on the eight.
Re: I love this game but boy do I stink at it!
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:08 pm
by CZforlife
Hammy I think your losing it!!!
Re: I love this game but boy do I stink at it!
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:23 pm
by hambone49
Maybe, but not at pool. I noticed you are not denying your comeuppance, my large lad.
Re: I love this game but boy do I stink at it!
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:33 am
by tenx9
Golly, I have many times. First match, guy shoots AAA score. I'm sure there are rules officialatos on here, so I guess the guy becomes AA or AAA? after 1 match. I guess maybe I've been around to long.
Re: I love this game but boy do I stink at it!
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:56 am
by Jason
First match shot for score gets the competitor classified as whatever class the score was. For instance, I shot a 30/60 in my first match ever. It was easily a year or more, including several matches, before I came anywhere close to that high a score again...
Re: I love this game but boy do I stink at it!
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:58 am
by Innocent
The shooter starts in the class of his/her first score at an approved or registered match, and potentially goes up from there. Two scores to break out of B, three scores to break out of any other class, except when the shooter
fires a score two classes above the one he is in, then the shooter moves up immediately to one class below the one he shot to.
Mary
Re: I love this game but boy do I stink at it!
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:52 am
by 1stlttightwad
Dee wrote:Archimedes findings play a roll in weight distribution but Pythagoras dictates more to me where my non shooting hand gets placed on the stock. I actually prefer a little further out down the forearm to place my split finger hold as it gets my arm/elbow in tighter to my body. All ranges are different some with racks stacked one over the other and some with the entire banks on straight rails, some shooting up and down due to the topography of the range. When I shoot the ones stacked I find a definite need to move my hand position on the stock slightly to allow for my natural settle point to come to a rest along that plane. Just like L/R NPA adjustment it is a vertical NPA that you don't want to be fighting either to get onto the animal. Regardless of where my hand ends up I hold the stock with the same dead hand stick technique and split fingers. Mind you this is not a whole lot of movement up and down the stock to adjust but I find it is something I need to pay attention to closely. This also prevents me from having to use the butt of the rifle to change the angle so that my shoulder spot and check weld are never changed.
Should also add the I use the front of the trigger guard all the time as a reference point to align my fingers under the stock a set distance based of the tip of my thumb against the gaurd. Once I do that if I am someplace I need to scoot down the forearm a tad it doesn't take long to get a feel for how much it needs to go further down and becomes easily repeatable so long as you remember to add that little extra push down the forearm.
.
Dee
Dee, thought I'd give you a few days to research Pythgoras. His theorem only states that the sum of the degress in a triangle always equals 180 deg. which has nothing to do with leverage and support..Example, you state that you move your hand either closer or farther AWAY from the trigger guard "scoot down the forearm"..that action is changing the fulcrum and has no place in Pythagoras's theory..Ooops. Still a great discussion though...Dave Deo Vindice
Re: I love this game but boy do I stink at it!
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:01 pm
by tenx9
I give up...ok you guys win. Archimedes must have been one hell of a silo shooter. I wonder if he used an Anschutz or a Walther.....hmmmmmmm
Re: I love this game but boy do I stink at it!
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:01 pm
by Dee
Silly me I thought the Pythagorean Theorem was to determine the length of the unknown side of a right triangle, not that a triangle has angles which equal 180 degrees. Since ALL of the them do right triangle or not. I was merely referencing how the length of one side of the triangle formed when shooting changes depending on the angle to the targets unless you want to fight the rifle to get it down or up using muscles. Whatever works for you man knock yourself out. If more levered weight hanging off the end is better for you perhaps you should just hold the rifle with both hands at the pistol grip to maximize the length
But the weight of the rifle still isn't going to change.
Dee
Re: I love this game but boy do I stink at it!
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:13 pm
by Wirenut1212
I normaly don't weigh in on things like this but I have have watched some guys come out shoot really well there first time or two, then there head gets in the way! Mine still gets in the way after 3 years of working pretty hard at this game! Be open to try new things, to find what works best for you.
Re: I love this game but boy do I stink at it!
Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:56 am
by DavidABQ
I am taking a good hard look at my practice/shooting.
Right now I'm concentrating on the chickens and pigs.
More importantly I am concentrating on the fundamentals of trigger squeeze and follow through. These seem to be two areas that I need improvement in and are easy to address.