Larry, we saw the bag and rest along side of a half drank can of soda pop. We were tempted to relocate it to a good home in Colorado. I bet Snake has a line on it's where abouts.

Mordecai, some day please change back my sign off statement to the way it was. I want to puke every time I see this one.

hope so already sent him email and posted what a old forget fart i have gotten to be

[quoteMordecai, some day please change back my sign off statement to the way it was. I want to puke every time I see this one][/quote]

Bob....just change your name and start under another more appropriate name like 6.5 Guru!!

Innocent

Bob Mc Alice wrote:..........Mordecai, some day please change back my sign off statement to the way it was. I want to puke every time I see this one.

I think it looks rather becoming on you Bob

Holton....It took you how many days to figure out that you misplaced your gear?!!! That's why you tout 6.5....diminished attention span. YOUR equipment was placed in the club house where mommy puts all of sweetums lost toys..... keep on with that 6.5 its obvious recoil has had it toll.

take your stabs when you can i would too lol guess i was laughing so hard at the rams taking those man loads i got side tracked never completely unpacked till yesterday but i guess i will come up the next match and retreive it thanks is the next match sept. ?? or might make outher arangements with you

Actually Mach2, The crying shame would have been that a 40/40 was done in an approved match and not a registered one. An approved match is good for any grand slam or long run and that's it, in order for it to count in any record it has to be done in a registered match (usually a state, regional or nationals). Make no mistake a 39/40 in any match is darn good shooting.

McAlice, Keep the 6.5, it ads a little class.

Dear Mach 2...Our game calls for a cartridge 6mm or larger....the object was to replicate live knock down and similar weights vis-a-vis live animals. Our game suffers because its difficult...but the long range pistol game suffered because it was too easy (40's were the rule). The fact that a 40 hasn't been shot (yet) is thankfully remarkable. There is method behind the idea of "using enough gun"

Mach 2 wrote:For some time now I have been reading all of the posting concerning "man" vs. "wimp" cartridges when it comes to performance on the ram target. Why on earth did the founding fathers of silhouette choose to make the ram from 3/8" plate weighing over 50 pounds ? It seems to me that if 5/16" hard plate were used it would weigh ten or more pounds less and all of the popular rounds 6mm and up would knock it over with ease. At 500 meters the correct metal will not get damaged any more than the current thickness used.

When was the last time you saw a small bore ram "ring" with a solid hit ? This is supposed to be a game of shooting skill. Reading that shooter A had the skill to hit five rams at 500 meters but they did not fall is just wrong. Many of the rules have been changed for any number of reasons. Keep the size as is. Why not make this target easier to tip over.

What if the shooter from Washington had hit his 40th target and it did not fall. That friends, would have been a crying shame.

Mach 2, I replied to this post a couple of days ago but some how my reply got lost in cyberspace. Why you are proposing makes a lot of sense specially now that we have excellent bullets for smaller than 30 cal. At the beginning most of us were shooting 308's and 30-06 rifles but as the game became popular and shooters took the time to practice we realized we were absorbing way to much unnecessary recoil and started shooting 7mm's then we went to 6mm's for a short while until Remington introduced the 260 which was the perfect compromise between the 6mm's and the 7mm's.

We could make the targets out of 5/16" and I do not think that anybody would complain about it. Pistol shooters pay more attention to their targets and stands because they regularly shoot 40's and can't afford to ring targets, they went as far as having the rules changed to allow them to soft set the rams on the stands to make them go down easier and lately in Cowboy the silhouette committee sent us a recommendation that we do like wise so there is no reason we could not do that in HP rifle as well, all we have to do is ask.

In regards to your statement of the game being supposed to be of shooting skill does not work that way some times because most of our shooting ranges are not as friendly to the shooters as they could be if the rules would let us have more protection from the elements (wind)and at large matches since we don't start in the same relay or same target we are at the mercy of the prevalent conditions at the time we shoot.

I think I have stepped into an alternate universe.....the 260 is a compromise between 6mm and 7mm?? "Soft setting rams"...a good idea?...Is that because "the compromise" wasn't that good? Interestingly a local match director bought into that unsubstantiated theory that starting in different positions, even though we all shoot the same 40, somehow confers an advantage to some, decided that everyone would start at chickens.... competitors being added as others moved up animals. Statistically....there were no changes in scores....you see EVERYBODY shoots the same animals. The facts don't bear out an advantage/disadvantage.
Furthermore if your so worried about rams I can only suppose you're shooting the other thirty "clean" You really don't want this game to become the pistol game.
Almost forgot...smallbore doesn't ring rams but suffers from inconsistent ammunition and the finicky nature of the rimfire in general. But comparing the rimfire game to the highpower game begs the question...should rimfire be like high power or viceversa. They are what they are...each having its very own nuances

Snake wrote:I think I have stepped into an alternate universe.....the 260 is a compromise between 6mm and 7mm?? "Soft setting rams"...a good idea?...Is that because "the compromise" wasn't that good? Interestingly a local match director bought into that unsubstantiated theory that starting in different positions, even though we all shoot the same 40, somehow confers an advantage to some, decided that everyone would start at chickens.... competitors being added as others moved up animals. Statistically....there were no changes in scores....you see EVERYBODY shoots the same animals. The facts don't bear out an advantage/disadvantage.
Furthermore if your so worried about rams I can only suppose you're shooting the other thirty "clean" You really don't want this game to become the pistol game.
Almost forgot...smallbore doesn't ring rams but suffers from inconsistent ammunition and the finicky nature of the rimfire in general. But comparing the rimfire game to the highpower game begs the question...should rimfire be like high power or viceversa. They are what they are...each having its very own nuances

Snake, I have been shooting HP since 1978 and I have seen all the trends of caliber choices by us and since 1997 when Remington introduced the 260 the 6.5mm's have been the dominating calibers mainly because most of us shoot both rifle classes and the 6.5's are not as punishing in 9 lbs rifles as 308's and 7mm's. In case you don't know the 3 or 4 39X40's shot in register competition may all have been shot with 6.5's. My friend Agustin Sanchez shot 2 of them with a 260 and one other with a 6.5BR improved, I believe CA Dennis Dadian was also using a 6.5 when he shot his in 2009 but I could be mistaken. Look at most of the current National records and if you investigate you will find out were also set with 6.5's so I am not advocating the changes I mentioned because the 6.5 which is the caliber of my choice can't take down the targets mainly the rams because it can.

Say what you want but our sport has gone down hill in the last few years. I heard Ridgway had the lowest attendance ever this year in the HP Hunting Rifle Nationals with less than 70 shooters and just about every where else attendance to HP matches including my state is almost non existent that is why I propose that the sport be a bit more shooter friendly with the intention of attracting a few more new shooters to our sport.

Pistol and Rifle are so different that can't even be compared with each other most of their shooting is done in the freestyle position while we do it standing. Their problem is that for most it may look way too easy until you get involved in the sport and have to shoot a 40X40 just to make the shoot offs that are 1/2 size targets shot at 200 meters with iron sights (not easy at all). Our sport on the other hand is so difficult that experienced rifle shooters that try it for the first time are lucky indeed if they get into double digits (I got 6 the first time around). I hope you understand by my comments that I am not the enemy and I am not trying to undermine the sport we both love. Tony Tello

lone ringer wrote:.................Say what you want but our sport has gone down hill in the last few years. I heard Ridgway had the lowest attendance ever this year in the HP Hunting Rifle Nationals with less than 70 shooters and just about every where else attendance to HP matches including my state is almost non existent that is why I propose that the sport be a bit more shooter friendly with the intention of attracting a few more new shooters to our sport. Tony Tello

You’re right on Tony (and we did miss you guys at Ridgway this year). However we are suffering in attendance just like many other sports are and most of those others are just spectator sports like Racing, Baseball, etc.

I think some of the big factors in our sport, especially HP, is the cost and availability of reloading components now (which is freeing up now but a lot more expensive then is was), higher entry fees the events are charging, increased motel and fuel costs for attending the matches and just the economy in general. There are so many folks out of work or worried about their jobs along with the higher costs of just maintaining a household, utilities, taxes, etc. going up double digit percentages every year that one’s 'fun' activities have to get put on the back burner and the basics taken care of first. I know for myself, like many others I've talked too, you now just pick a few events and closer by to save on motels and cost Vs all the events.

Come on boys...the game has suffered because its hard and one stands to shoot all the way through. I really don't believe caliber or the weight of the rams has anything to do with it. If you added a stage where guys could lean or shoot from the bench then the those of faint heart would probably step up....now wouldn't that be swell Bad economic times don't help with attendance either. But FYI F-class for AR15 type rifles is seeing a surge in young shooters; think about it...they get to shoot prone and the targets are scored in the back room and a certain amount of "privacy" about one's score is at least possible. With our game everyone knows whether you scored or not....a lot of people eschew that publicity. Plus the youngsters all want a black rifle. By the way Tony...there is no magic in 6.5...the recoil from a 260 isn't significantly less than a 7-08.....they both work.....I am not trimming down my rams ... if recoil is a problem get a softer pad, or go to the gym. Talent is much more significant.
By the way Mach 2.....why all the research? Tell us why you just don't show up with the'06 or the 270 and shoot a match...
And Tony what about the "rivalry" between the western boys and the eastern guys...do you think that stuff helped the sport....you know what I'm talking about 'cause I've been at it as long as you ans saw it


P.S. 6.5 still sucks

You’re right on Tony (and we did miss you guys at Ridgway this year). However we are suffering in attendance just like many other sports are and most of those others are just spectator sports like Racing, Baseball, etc.

I think some of the big factors in our sport, especially HP, is the cost and availability of reloading components now (which is freeing up now but a lot more expensive then is was), higher entry fees the events are charging, increased motel and fuel costs for attending the matches and just the economy in general. There are so many folks out of work or worried about their jobs along with the higher costs of just maintaining a household, utilities, taxes, etc. going up double digit percentages every year that one’s 'fun' activities have to get put on the back burner and the basics taken care of first. I know for myself, like many others I've talked too, you now just pick a few events and closer by to save on motels and cost Vs all the events.[/quote]

Bob, you are correct on what you are saying about attendance to HP matches but on the other hand at the Cowboy Rifle Silhouette Nationals we had 170 shooters and this month at Pala we had 38 shooters for a regular monthly Cowboy rifle silhouette match. So there has to be other powerful reasons why shooters are losing or lost interest in rifle silhouette other than just the slow economy. When I go to the Los Angeles Ranges on weekends the parking lot to the public range is completely full and that is common occurrence lately , also when my local club holds three gun matches they get 40 shooters or more but when we have silhouette rifle matches we only get a handful of shooters.