Careful...there is a dimensional difference between Rem 6BR brass and Lapua...the bench boys confirm that it does make a difference, presumably at the upper pressure limits. I think a mic check would be in order.
You know the bench rest fellas all use flat base bullets. They claim (apparently confirmed by Aberdeen Proving Grounds) that boattails don't stop yawing until the 300+ yd mark.So while we're sectioning bullets, anybody look at the insides of some flat base items re jacket thickness?

No other FB match type bullets in my house.

But I did sacrifice two more virgin Hornady's for the silhouette gods approval. On the left we have a 139 SST with almost the same tough jacket as the 162 SST. It lacks the interlock feature it's big brother has. The right slug is a 154 Interlock. These two bullets are the ones I fire the most for practice on all of the targets. My loads are either 38.0grs. of Varget or Reloder 15. Both of these loads will reliably topple our club rams and are very accurate. These are mostly bullets from the reject bins at Hornady. Ten bucks per 100 for the Interlocks any weight, $14.for the SST's any weight. We have 25 more boxes of assorted .264 and .284 rejects arriving here on Monday 30th. to split up among us. I have fired thousands of the 154's. Nearly all the ammo I fired in that 7x57 was that bullet and 41.0 grs. RL-15. The two far right bullets are the 162 SST and the 175 Interlock for comparison.

Bob,

Great job on the bullet "sacrifices." I'm sure the ram gods will approve. I'm waiting for some 162 SST's to land in a few days. Once in house, the ballistic-pendulum smasher will be activated to test a number of bullets for "total toughness." I'll post pics after the smash-a-thon.

Two issues that I don't think we've discussed, concerning bullet toughness, are: core hardness and gilding metal hardness. The smash tests provide results that take those parameters into account as well as jacket thickness. I've noticed that some gilding metal is softer than others. For instance, just using a not-very-scientific scratch test I've noticed that Berger jackets are soft compared to say, Nosler Ballistic-Tip jackets or the old Lapua 144-gr, 6.5 bullets. I don't know if the harder gilding metal is a different alloy or if the jackets were work-hardened more, or both. For those not up to speed on jacket composition, it is typically 95/5 copper/zinc. To continue on that theme, I think one of the reasons some of Cauterucio's 6.5 and 7mm bullets are tougher than SMK's is because he swagges-down 30-cal jackets, thereby work-hardening them.

Good Evening,

I ran the new, 162-gr A-Max dimensions through the JBM Drag/Twist simulator. The bullet is good to go out of a 9-twist barrel when launched at our typical MV's. And, it's G1 BC at 2,400 fps is in the 0.620 neighborhood, compared to the 168 SMK at about 0.494. It will be interesting to see how it "smashes-up" to the A-Max and SST bullets.

OK, now I just have to do a terminal MO test....off to JBM....if both bullets are launched at 2,450 fps, from a properly designed chamber using Lapua 6BR brass, that MV is eminently doable out of a 7mmBR, terminal MO and wind deflection from a 10 mph crosswind at 500 meters are:

A-Max: TMO = 1.27 ... Deflection = 3.8 MOA

168 SMK: TMO = 1.19 ... Deflection = 5.0 MOA

So, to summarize, the SMK wind deflects 31 % more than the A-Max at the ram line and delivers about 6 % less terminal MO.

Sierra bullets are like the .308. We've been using them for so long even though there is better out there.

10 pages. Nice to see the activity here in the HP forum!!

isnt the best cartridge what ever YOU want to shoot that will relaibly take down the animals?

You are right, Matt. Unlike .22 rimfire, HP is not a one size fits all game.

Ten pages into a simple question shows it is not an easy question to answer. It also shows that being popular ain't necessarily the best criteria to judge the best cartridge for HP silhouette. Comments I have read in other recent postings assures me I use a good cartridge that I am comfortable with.

I am looking forward to reading more of Dan's technical posts regarding bullet smashing. Now on to page eleven!

Bob Mc Alice wrote:......Ten pages into a simple question shows it is not an easy question to answer. It also shows that being popular ain't necessarily the best criteria to judge the best cartridge for HP silhouette. ......

Bob,

I think this thread's title is a bit of a misnomer. It should actually be, IMHO, Best Ram Bullet for Silhouette. To my way to thinking, cartridge selection is the last component to be specified behind bullet selection (first,) which is followed by barrel-twist selection. To me the cartridge is selected to just be capable of launching the ram-bullet selected to the appropriate MV. That is, in the immortal words of a friend, "We want just enough gun to get the job done." So, my criteria for rifle design is; first select the ram and CPT bullets. Next, specify the twist required to optimally stabilize the ram bullet. Finally, select the cartridge that will deliver the requisite MV for the ram bullet. Of course using a standard cartridge like the 7-08 or 6.5-08 has a lot of appeal for those not interested in going to a smaller case like the 7BR or 6.5BR as well as wanting a competitive rifle that can be purchased off-the-shelf, what Hunter HP & SB used to be. Certainly we can all agree that the 6.5 and 7mm bullets offer the best choices for our game with respect to minimizing recoil, wind deflection and still deliver reliable ram-knock-down performance.

I have just a few comments. Bullet selection as with cartridge selection carries a lot so-called facts behind the choices even though we all agree that light bullets ding rams (ask Dr McAlice...the prince of the 130gr). But don't be bad mouthing Sierra ...they support my regional with great generosity and hornady NEVER has...likewise neither has nosler but Lapua has in brass, bullets and powder. I buy from the guys that support my sport...considering that picking a bullet for my 7-08 isn't difficult and generally consists of resolving an argument similar to: which is better a Redhead or a Blonde, or the oriental chick or her occidental girlfriend? They also have differing BC and stabilization twists....
As far as the Dan calculations go....A-Max's are low drag designs and don't group at their best until they're loaded up against the lands and they have a rear oriented bearing surface...they are persnicky in a whole lot of barrels...But i like 'em

FYI....though not on topic...I have to crow about my hornady powder dispenser. I got it the other day and it throws stick powder precisely and quickly. Its faster than the RCBS but it doesn't store your favorite loads and its about $125-150 cheaper. It throws a 38 gr 4064 charge in the time it takes to seat a bullet in a charged case....very cool

Hopefully my post regarding Sierra wasn't taken the wrong way. I love them and have thousands and thousands of them. Bonner and I visited their factory last year on the way to Snake's MO regional and it was and educational tour that I highly recommend to any shooter passing through Missouri.

I would also like to see Hornady give some support to Silhouette.

Snake wrote:..the prince of the 130gr

I may never live this one down. The cause of that terrible blunder was determined to be my spotters fault. Had I a decent spotter he would have seen my chicken ammo on the ram line. Trent gets him this year.

I'll get him trained up on proper spotter duties, including mad dashes back to the pits to retrieve proper ammo after the Ready command has been given. Haha.

Ladies and Gents,

7mm Bullet Smashing Test

The Ballistic Bullet Smasher was cranked-up a little while ago to test a few for toughness. The below picture tells a pretty good tale of how tough these bullets are and how they stack-up against each other.

If you look on the right side of the bullets you will see a "shelf" on some of the bullets from the bullet smashing down to the chuck holding the bullets. That is a sign of soft bullet construction. The 175 SMK, 180 Berger and 162 A-Max all have a large shelf on their right side. Notice how little the 177 Cauterucio smashed-down compared to the 175 SMK and 180 Berger. Finally, the 162 SST looks especially tough. That is one tough-azz jacket. If it will shoot accurately, it just might be a top choice for rams. The BC is lower than the other bullets, but I think its toughness will outweigh the lower BC. And, those are pretty cheap bullets, only $27/100 at Powder Valley.

-------------------------------------------175 SMK - 177 Caut - 180 Berger - 162 A-Max - 162 SST

Guys and Gals,

I thought I'd add that Bob Mc Alice's bullet sectioning and his graciously posted pictures predicted some of the bullet-smashing results. His picture of the SST bullet's jacket sure predicted the smashing test results. And, there were some comments previously about the 177 Cauterucio's having jackets like SMKs. As we can see from the smashing picture, the Cauterucio jackets are considerably tougher than the 175 SMK as well as the 180 Berger. Also, I should add, Sierra used to use a 3% antimony core in their MKs while Cauterucio has, to the best of my knowledge, only used pure, lead wire. An alloy with 3% antimony has a Brinell Hardness of about 9.1 while pure load has a BHN of only 4.5. That further shows how tough Cauterucio's jackets are. His 6.5mm, 141-gr, heavy-jacket bullets were really, really tough. I wish I still had some samples to smash for comparison. But, all my remaining bullets were shipped to Round Rock, TX a few years ago, to a Pharr-out gunsmith and marksman. The old 180 JLK's also have tough jackets. I don't know about the new ones, but the old JLK 180's launched to only 2,325 fps never lost a ram and took them down with authority that had to be seen to be believed. I still have 300 of those old JLK's, that stash should last awhile. They were purchased after smashing 180 Walls, 180 Bergers and the JLKs. The JLKs came out on top by a country mile. I didn't test any Cauterucios back then, didn't know about them in late 95 when designing the 7mm PPC Imp for long-azz bullets.