Makes you wonder how the big tournaments in Pe ell Washington and Winnsboro Louisiana ever happen without a cadre of NRA people showing up from Virginia.

kevinbear wrote:Makes you wonder how the big tournaments in Pe ell Washington and Winnsboro Louisiana ever happen without a cadre of NRA people showing up from Virginia.

This is one of the easiest question asked. Because they have a support group that did spend and spent 100s of hours preparing for the match. For example Winnsboro, David and company went to the shot show and wined dined to get the donation they had. They talked to companies until they were blue in the face. They had the support of the town. There were many people that spend hours upon hours to setup and run the match. They also put on a great match.

P

That is unless you believe in the magic match ferries. If so it just magically happened

Makes you wonder how the big tournaments in Pe ell Washington and Winnsboro Louisiana ever happen without a cadre of NRA people showing up from Virginia.

To add to GregG's response, you're also talking about ONE local/state match run by ONE club. What is being discussed here is the possibility of creating a new National Governing Body which will be responsible for hundreds of clubs, hundreds/thousands of matches per year and thousands of members throughout the country. Apples and oranges.

Again, I sincerely hope that is not the direction we have to go. It's going to be interesting to see what Dennis Willing has to say if/when he responds to the members.

If people or clubs are not happy with the changes they can simply convert from NRA matches to fun matches using the NRA rules. If the NRA sees an almost universal exit of clubs and their money I suspect someone will notice. They may even ask Mr. Conner where is the lost revenue. We all know the NRA loves to ask for money.

PhxShooter wrote:

Makes you wonder how the big tournaments in Pe ell Washington and Winnsboro Louisiana ever happen without a cadre of NRA people showing up from Virginia.

To add to GregG's response, you're also talking about ONE local/state match run by ONE club. What is being discussed here is the possibility of creating a new National Governing Body which will be responsible for hundreds of clubs, hundreds/thousands of matches per year and thousands of members throughout the country. Apples and oranges.

Again, I sincerely hope that is not the direction we have to go. It's going to be interesting to see what Dennis Willing has to say if/when he responds to the members.

Yes, I agree but if you read an earlier post the chances anyone on the board will have the time, money, or energy to start a successful organization in a declining sport.... IS ZERO. Many on this board want to just complain about the NRA but when the NRA makes a minor name change it flames the we should do our own thing.

Sorry, just do not see, and as I said before, I am not going to join another organization especially one just starting out. It will be a disaster sorry.

FYI are you going to run the organization? Do you have the 100s of hours and 1,000s of dollars it is going to take to start a new organization. The sooner we come to the realization starting such a thing is hard and not easy, the sooner we can spend our time working to change and give feedback to the NRA. This is where the future of the sport, if it has one is IMHO.

Greg

DavidABQ wrote:If people or clubs are not happy with the changes they can simply convert from NRA matches to fun matches using the NRA rules. If the NRA sees an almost universal exit of clubs and their money I suspect someone will notice. They may even ask Mr. Conner where is the lost revenue. We all know the NRA loves to ask for money.

Called several people over the last couple of days and this seems to be the general consensus, the average silhouette shooter won't notice or care. One of the local clubs already ditched the NRA 3 years ago, they lowered the entry fee's and their attendance went up.
I shoot skeet alot, every couple of months someone from the club tells me I should join the NSSA, no, not really.

Just admit it Kevinbear, you just want to found a new Silhouette Association so you have it named after you! v

GregG wrote:
I am also willing to bet many of their electronic systems for classifications was written when Christ was young and changing them will be expensive. I remember reading an article many many years ago that estimated one line of code change cost over 100,000 over the life of the change. Estimates are a good programmer can write 2-3 lines of clean code per day. So overall, while I will miss the classic names, I really in the long run do not care.

To the guy who said I can write the software. If this is web based, are you prepared to handle, SQL injections, DOS, heart bleed, poodle, beast, bar mitz, etc? Also for online payments remember you need to be PCI compliant and if you are not then you can be fined per transaction.

Yes, it is what I do for a living and I can certainly put a web based system into play protected as well as any other can be. And your bit about changing code costing 100,000 per line is 1980's spin. And any programmer that writes 2-3 lines of clean code a day would be fired in that same day at my company. You could hire 2 full time programmers for a year for 100k here in Missoula. 1.5 if you want experienced ones.

Again, I'm not advocating leaving at this time, but if the fees (IF) become too much it may be necessary to save ourselves.

cslcAl wrote:Well, I didn't hear from Dennis today. He was out of the office last week and I would suppose he may have had more immediate matters to attend to, besides a 2016 issue.
I have been really trying to be open minded about this, and I have asked for online reporting on every Jury Report for the last three years. Let me ask this question. If the other shooting disciplines holding NRA sanctioned matches pay a per shooter fee for each match, in all fairness why shouldn't silhouette?
I must admit I don't know a thing about NRA Highpower as far as how they run their matches in regard to costs. What would it cost to shoot a NRA HP sanctioned match at a local club? I'm looking at comparing our operating costs compared to theirs. What do they give for awards? Our biggest expense is the target setters, agree, disagree?
How many years has NRA HP paid a per shooter fee for approved matches?

Al Foust

Al, any word from Dennis yet? Now that the show is over I would think he would have time to respond to you.

OldRanger,

I am really glad, I do not work for you company since the industry standard is still in the ball park of what I quoted. http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/quest ... de-per-day. I myseIf want to believe I am better than average but by the time, I test, document, write unit tests, correct bugs, I as well as you are probably about the average.

I am sure there are many that think they can and probably can put up a website and believe it is secure. But lets remember what has happened in just the past recent bit, Sony was hacked, Target hacked, Blue Cross, and yes even this website. Just for example, why was this website not protected, why was it down for several days when it was being unhacked?

I for one do not want my personal information name, address, phone, etc being on a website that is "just" created by someone how knows how. The above list of companies all have professional or should have professional programmers and security experts working for them. They spend thousands on security software. A "just" created website would not.

Since you said you are still working or implied the website you just created was just hacked or is down? Do you have the freedom to fix it at work or take the time off to fix it? Remember the new organization depends on it....

The point of my post is there are many that can put of a website but it is going to cost time, energy and money to keep it going. What happens with you get tired of maintaining the "just" website, who will take it over. You just might need staff, they do not work for free.

So any new organization that is anything more than using the post card method which IMHO will not work today, is going to require equipment and staff, etc. Not just a "just" or we can do it.

Greg

Lol, I guess if you are writing assembly on a pbx you are correct. But even reading what you cited it says the LOC is non linear based on project complexities. And the book is from 1975. Even you have to admit computers have changed a little since then.

I'm done with you and this, but I will say that I'm glad you don't work for my company too....

OldRanger wrote:Lol, I guess if you are writing assembly on a pbx you are correct. But even reading what you cited it says the LOC is non linear based on project complexities. And the book is from 1975. Even you have to admit computers have changed a little since then.

I'm done with you and this, but I will say that I'm glad you don't work for my company too....

LOL it amazes me.... First I too am done with this as this is a shooting form not a coding form. But the number as you stated are from 1975 and are back in many more current articles. Yes programming rates and tools have improved productivity but coding is not all that there is. TDD, Functional programming, even NODE.js can make huge problems trivial today.

This does not eliminate the documentation, testing, bug fixing, user change request that all programmers must account for. So YES, I do believe there are problem larger than 1 day projects and a few hours. I have never meet a programmer than can estimate at all Including myself).

to GregG,
It's none of my business but jeez, do you work in a government bureaucracy somewhere?
You have a dog in this fight or what?

Yes, I agree but if you read an earlier post the chances anyone on the board will have the time, money, or energy to start a successful organization in a declining sport.... IS ZERO. Many on this board want to just complain about the NRA but when the NRA makes a minor name change it flames the we should do our own thing.

Sorry, just do not see, and as I said before, I am not going to join another organization especially one just starting out. It will be a disaster sorry.

FYI are you going to run the organization? Do you have the 100s of hours and 1,000s of dollars it is going to take to start a new organization. The sooner we come to the realization starting such a thing is hard and not easy, the sooner we can spend our time working to change and give feedback to the NRA. This is where the future of the sport, if it has one is IMHO.

Greg

After living through the debacle of IHMSA, this is reality and I couldn't have said it better myself!

kevinbear wrote:to GregG,
It's none of my business but jeez, do you work in a government bureaucracy somewhere?
You have a dog in this fight or what?

We are all eagerly awaiting the NEW silhouette governing body and administrative organization that you will be running for free from your kitchen table, kevinbear.

Everyone in America knows a better way to do everything, but ain't no one doin' anything about this one so far.