OldRanger wrote:Just want to throw this out there. Mordecai currently runs this website and is an avid shooter. Jerry Webster has riflesilhouette.com on his own and obviously loves the sport and cares enough to promote it for free. I'm also a programmer. Just saying there are resources out there in our current members. I would donate my time to build and maintain a computer system to keep track of all of the things needed for a new organization. Everything from yearly membership to matches and awards would be a simple database (which I already built the basics of) and a dozen web pages. If I had the server space (which the new organization would need to pay for) I could have a complete system up and running in a week. Of course I'd miss stuff and have to modify it as we went along, but hey, you get what you pay for!

I agree the money to start up an organization would be a bit tricky. We would need dues paid so we could print stuff so we could run matches. I would say books wouldn't be necessary, they are an unnecessary expense. The organization should keep track of the classifications like the NRA is proposing now. It only makes sense. Individual members or match directors could be sent their classifications, but also the classifications should be posted on a web site. And when a match director puts in the folks shooting at their match (for bigger registered matches mostly) they should get a list to print out with every member and their class. Again, this is all very rudimentary programming and easily done.

If I had a vote I would say the new organization should be a non-profit. Personally I donate to a number of good causes every year and would be willing to donate to this new group instead of my usual ones.

Of course I still think this alleged change is nothing to get up in arms about. Until we know the details.

There's lots of talent among us, we have Jeff59 who is another that would easily be up to the tasks you mentioned.

Kevin, all good questions and this thread is certainly working on rumor.

But do not forget the cost of the books is not just printing them. We are required to send in match reports today (no fees) to the NRA. I hope they are doing something with these reports as they continue to ask for reports. This has a cost associated with it. As for adding money back into the sport, I do not think so. As has been said many times before on this board, the NRA cannot increase the shooting of this sport. It is not their job, it is ours.

As for the change all shooting sports except Silhouette send in fees for each schedule events. If I shoot high-power cross the course, mid range f-class, long range f-class each gets a fee. As for the names, personally, I like the old names but do not care what they are called. If the NRA can more efficiently handle match reports and handles classifications well, I for one will give them a shot. Certainly a change.

But I think we as a shooting community have to stop blaming the NRA for our decline. It is up to us to make the sport fun, exciting and friendly. Many do, but some do not.

Greg

No current match director is doing any of these things for anything but his or her own matches. And many of those tasks they do not do at all (rule changes and governance). Kevin, if you think this is so simple and easy have at it. Folks are quick to volunteer others, but I don't see any one putting one's self forward.

The NRA could do better than it does, but I don't see any sign, whatsoever, of any better solution coming forward in the near future.

A better alternative might be to band silhouette shooters together across all the disciplines and petition with some CONSTRUCTIVE suggestions and work towards changing the way things currently are. Not many years ago a significant percentage of the active BPTR shooters got together and petitioned both the NRA and the Whit for changes to be made to Nationals. Almost every one of those issues were dealt with quite well. We are talking about the same people as silhouette (Willing's predecessor and Connor among others).

What EXACTLY does the rank and file want changed? So far as I can tell, there are not a lot of consensus complaints. BPCR has some issues that really are irrelevant to high power. Lever has issues that affect no other discipline. I don't see a lot of issues that are across the board for all disciplines (however, governance is one), but if you do, then start a thread and let's list them all, get a strong consensus of a large number of shooters. Then draw up a well-worded petition and get a whole bunch of folks to sign it and deliver it.

Brent, well put.

I was a match director for 3 years at my home club, I'm familiar with the match reporting process, I don't believe anything meaningful is ever done with the information other than reporting 10 in a rows.
I don't know if anyone on this forum is part of the NRA that wants to make the changes but they should know that many of us won't just go along to get along.

Kevin,

I am slow; so I am not sure I follow what you are saying. If you not involved anymore in running a match anymore, then you are an individual contributor to any match and can certainly speak for your self. What actions you wish to do regarding you participation in silhouette is yours alone. This is a hobby and we all have an opportunity to participate or not.

As for the match reporting forms, unfortunately we can only guess what the NRA is using these for. I would assume much more than 10 in a row. Especially since the monthly match reporting form does not have any scores (or 10 in a row) but a count of participation. The grand slams are certainly reported but this is different.

The NRA should be more transparent but they are not. I can assume they are used to allocate staff for things like nationals, record keeping, etc.

I am still acting as a TSRA state silhouette director and can say that monthly matches for airgun which were dying will be dead if the believed changes go into effect. Right now except for a very few most of my local shooters are master and other are stuck in the class they currently hold. So the question is why would they pay $5 to the NRA? Right now our local match when held are free for airgun.

Greg

...... Right now our local match when held are free for airgun.

Greg[/quote]


They're free? Larry has been charging me $10.....WTF?

Pat

It's because he likes you Pat

As for the new classifications and all this 'speculation' on the fees, lets all wait for Dennis to get back with Al or the Silhouette committee with an answer before we all want to run off and start a new league. I agree if it's an additional $4.50 per approved, or monthly,weekly semi monthly club match it will hurt all our clubs and attendance, but lets not put the cart before the horse till we get the real truth and plans for 2016 which may not come out before October of this year. So in the mean time ENJOY, shoot well and relax.

I just [pointed out that Canada broke away, I am not suggesting we do that. We do need some new people in the silhouette division and the silhouette shooters do need silhouette shooters to speak for them at the NRA. It seems to me a bunch of old 4P shooters have the limelight there.

I think that the only thing that needs to be fixed with our books and classification system is the books should last longer than 1 year. There is NO point in us changing to the same words other disciplines use. What is to be gained for us?????? More work for the match directors???? If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!!!!!

Jerry G wrote:I just [pointed out that Canada broke away, I am not suggesting we do that. We do need some new people in the silhouette division and the silhouette shooters do need silhouette shooters to speak for them at the NRA. It seems to me a bunch of old 4P shooters have the limelight there.

I think that the only thing that needs to be fixed with our books and classification system is the books should last longer than 1 year. There is NO point in us changing to the same words other disciplines use. What is to be gained for us?????? More work for the match directors???? If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!!!!!

The classifications are just a silly name change, BFD!

Now charging us money for the name change is B.S.!

I think we need to take a step back from where this thread has gone and many before it. Lets be honest the NRA is a business and have budgets. As much as we do not want to admit it the NRA has salaries, retirements, medical expensive to pay. In addition, they have publications, website, electronic stores to pay for, etc. All of this breaks down into where the NRA will and will not spend money.

I am also willing to bet many of their electronic systems for classifications was written when Christ was young and changing them will be expensive. I remember reading an article many many years ago that estimated one line of code change cost over 100,000 over the life of the change. Estimates are a good programmer can write 2-3 lines of clean code per day. So overall, while I will miss the classic names, I really in the long run do not care.

If changing the names improves the service to our shooter then this is a positive. I for one would rather the NRA spend the money modernizing some of their systems than changing their classification system to support the silhouette names.

I would hope the NRA will eventually use tools such as survey monkey and other to get feedback from the shooting disciplines on changes they like and do not. I am one who in general does not like change but am trying. I am hoping the NRA will give more information in the coming weeks about this change so many of these rumors and counter rumors, and threats can end.

We want the NRA to help out shooting discipline but when they do we complain.

As for setting up a new organization, I know this is just talk because those who are complaining are probably not willing to put in the time and effort to setup a new organization. The challenges are endless.
1) Rules
2) Defining shooting areas and people to run the areas.
3) A nationals staff
4) A nationals phone number
5) Equipment for website, membership, records.
6) Membership cards
7) Who services the membership. Including the endless the dog ate my membership card, how to I become a member, I paid where is my card, etc
Software to run the organization (remember you cannot just use personal editions for a business this is violation of your terms and conditions of the software). Many companies have found this out the hard way with fines.
9) Insurance
10) online payment processing
11) renewal processing
12) Newsletters
13) Records
14) Membership list (Oh yeah got to keep these secure)
15) on and on and on

This is just a start.

To the guy who said I can write the software. If this is web based, are you prepared to handle, SQL injections, DOS, heart bleed, poodle, beast, bar mitz, etc? Also for online payments remember you need to be PCI compliant and if you are not then you can be fined per transaction.

All of this is just the beginning, and I bet no one on this board is truly willing to take on all this for free or be willing to donate this kind of money and time.

Greg

You are right Dave, the name changes are just a lfd. Like I said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think there is a lot more to it than just a lfd name change.

Folks, I'll just be thrilled to get back on the range!

psteiger wrote:...... Right now our local match when held are free for airgun.

Greg

They're free? Larry has been charging me $10.....WTF?

Pat[/quote]
Larry told me it was 20 for you and E, going to have to talk with that man

Jerry G wrote:You are right Dave, the name changes are just a lfd. Like I said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think there is a lot more to it than just a lfd name change.

Maybe so but until I hear more it seems to be just a name change for the sake of a name change.