AddictedtoSB, the 7mm 154gr Hornady SST is another solid performer if you are looking for 150gr weight bullets. Bob, you've used those too, right? I don't remember loosing any CO rams with them.

My rifle fell in love with 36 grains. Don't remember the exact measurement, but it groups pretty close to 1" at 200 yds. It spread pretty quick with more powder.

Glad to hear it has a decent chance of knocking them down. Now I just have to actually hit some.

My problem with Hornady is a history of wildly varying bullet weights, at least with the Interlocks. My loading guru is very anal about bullet weight, and hates sometimes having a full grain difference in a single box, not to mention between several boxes. Numerous boxes of SMK have all been within .1 grain of 150. How consistent are the SSTs?

AddictedToSB wrote:.....What are the odds of being able to knock down rams using a .284 150gr SMK fired from a 7mm-08 using 36 gr of Reloder 15? Don't have chrono data, but book velocity is around 2475.

ATSB,

That load will cause you more ram-knockdown problems than for most others on the line. Your load has a triple, negative whammy: a low BC bullet that is NOT tough and blows around as it flies down range as if it had a sail on it. Your MV estimate is right-on, so off to some cyphering...back in a jiffy...OK...your bullets terminal velocity is only 1,511 due to low BC (0.430). Terminal momentum is only 1.00 ft-lbs / sec, marginal at best. Depending on the barrel's twist rate, we can suggest a bullet with far greater ram-knock-down potential, as well as much less wind deflection. That bullet must be blowing all over the place at turkeys and rams.

If your barrel can handle them, the 162 A-Max bullets would be a cheap solution. With the A-Max, 38.5 grains of VarGet will get you 2,500 fps out the muzzle. Terminal velocity is about 1,790 fps and T-Mo is around 1.29 ft-lbs / sec. That's a (1.29 - 1.00) / 1.00 = 29 % increase in T-Mo with just a wee bit of increased recoil; and a wind deflection reduction of (5.8 - 3.6) / 3.6 = 45 % reduction in wind deflection at the ram line. Hey, what's not to like, no???

You guys are missing a huge variable in the equation, the lubrication co-efficient of the paint on the targets. Here in Colorado we usually buy the .98 a can paint at walmart which is actually made by Krylon, this a a very dry mix with less co-polymers than the generic Rust-oleum found in Ace hardwares. I believe that the dry mix Krylon may actually increase the "dwell time"on the target but only if sufficient time is given for drying. Now back before 1978 and prior to the EPA cracking down on lead based paints the targets painted with the aforemention were much easier to topple because of the tendency of like metals to bond under high pressures. Of course even the process of painting can add another variable, I've seen guys coat rams with thick spots that run down the targets creating slick spots which are probably responsible for the lost targets with calibers and bullet weights that are normally a sure thing.

Addicted,

Bear in mind that hunting bullets are not match bullets and the manufacturer will not attempt to hold tight weight control on them. They do a very good job at it any way. I have seen as much a three grains difference in 154 interlocks but it does not show on the targets shooting offhand. The SST's are the rejects we have been getting for years and have a variety of cosmetic, dimensional, weight issues and sometimes minor imperfections. They still shoot very well for me and you can not beat the price for cheap practice. First quality bullets will be that much better.

PM sent to you.

DanDeMan wrote: and blows around as it flies down range as if it had a sail on it.

That bullet must be blowing all over the place at turkeys and rams.

No offense, but those are HUGE exaggerations.

Trent wrote:

DanDeMan wrote: and blows around as it flies down range as if it had a sail on it.

That bullet must be blowing all over the place at turkeys and rams.

No offense, but those are HUGE exaggerations.

Trent,

I was using "artistic license" to make a point. Of course I didn't mean it literally, it was meant to be understood figuratively. I should of used some LOL smillies at the end of the sentence. That is a phrase we used in the past to mess with each other about our bullet selections when they were not so hot. I can still remember a conversation, back in the mid-90's, with a many-times State, National and World Champion that was arguing that there was no meaningful difference in wind deflection and ram knock-down between a 168-gr SMK and a 168-gr JLK launched at the same MV. When proper bullet selection can reduce a bullet's wind deflection by 45 % and increase ram knockdown by 29 %, that calls for a little "artistic license" when trying to motive a shooter to try another, much more beneficial option.

Note to self: Use more smillies when not being literal.

Lots of good information here... Thanks to all for sharing.

Just saw this in a catalog I got the other day that I thought was timely to this discussion.
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=934999

That is interesting Bob. It says that it uses the "retardation formula" for calculations. I've already got that method down and I do it naturally.

MCA,
Thanks for the kind words. I would love to come to Raton for this years nationals but don't have anyone to make the trip with me just to shoot HP. The airfare to Colorado Springs isn't bad but the cost of the rental car and the hotel by myself really starts to get expensive. So I will have to sit on this one out and wait for Ridgway next year. Man, all this info has me rethinking my rebarreling project for my HPHR for next year. A 7x47 Lapua might be in the works. Now if we could just get someone to build a 130 to 140 grain high BC bullet for the first three animals!!!! A 139 sst at 2400fps would be a close alternative to the 123 Scenar at 2550 that I presently shoot. Don't know about the recoil difference. I'm sure Dan could figure that quickly.

Jason, yea those broken ribs let you know they are there constantly. That's why I was shooting Mickey's 7TCU and what got me really believing the high BC bullet's effect on Rams. I also have had the same experience as you with the newer 139 Scenars. When I first started shooting HP in 2002 I was using the 139 Scenar with great success. Then about 2008 I started to get 142MK performance or less on Rams. Now that I see some of the New Scenars cross sectioned I see why. I went to the 144 Lapua last year and have results like the old Scenars. I don't remember ringing a Ram with them at last years Nationals and if i did it was only one. Pharr and Neihouse shot beside Butch and I all three days and I remember them ringing a few with the 139's. I rang one at the PA states at Ridgway but that was on bank 9 which is notorious for ram ringing. Try some 144's and see if they help you any.
Mark Varner

DanDeMan, Well I went to the bullet store today and got some 180's for the 30-30, came home and broke out the old Oehler 33.

Standard 170 Ram Load
170 Sierra FP
31.0 grs. Varget 2137 MV
200 meter energy 937.5
200 meter momemtum 1.19
200 meter wind deflection @ 10 mph. 9.38

Reduced 180 Ram Load
180 Sierra RN
20.5 grs. IMR SR 4759 1923 MV
200 meter energy 893.4
200 meter momemtum 1.20
200 meter wind deflection @ 10 mph. 8.17

I test with the peeps at 50 meters and this load grouped well. I will test it at 200 soon. I did good numbers on the Oehler.
1923 MV
Extreme Spread 26
St. Dev. 8

Another plus was less wind drift at 200 meters. Danny Boy am I on the right track? Also what would the difference be in felt recoil? My shoulder could definately feel the difference shooting off the bench.

AL Foust

Wrong forum there skipper. We use use scopes at 500m.

Pardon MEEEEEE My post refers to the topic of bullet effectiveness, which is the direction this thread has gone. 200 or 500 same results are needed.

Al

I understand not much going on over at cowboy lever action. Exposed lead tip bullets behaviour on the targets is very different, much more effective that spitzers coming into the target from a higher angle.

kevinbear wrote:I understand not much going on over at cowboy lever action. Exposed lead tip bullets behaviour on the targets is very different, much more effective that spitzers coming into the target from a higher angle.

KB,

What tests have you done to support your assertion, to wit: "Exposed lead tip bullets behaviour on the targets is very different, much more effective that spitzers coming into the target from a higher angle." So, what are the angles you talk about??? And, why are said bullets more effective???