Greg Connor, the NRA and the Air Rifle Silhouette Worlds

[dustinflint]

A couple of weeks ago I emailed Greg Connor to tell him that we'd like to host an airgun silhouette nationals at our great airgun range in Baton Rouge. Today, he called me and told me that it wasn't going to happen. I asked him why not. He told me that it was because the NRA doesn't have the money for it. I told him no big deal, we don't need any NRA money; just put the match on the back of the scorebook and recognize the winner of each category as the national champion and we'll take care of the rest. He told me we couldn't do that because under the rules, the nationals match director and chief stat officer are not allowed to shoot. I told him no problem, the match director and the chief stat officer will not shoot. He told me that he had to be there to run the match and he wasn't coming. I asked him where it said that he had to be there and that we'd take care of everything, no need for him to show up. He told me that wouldn't fly because that's not the way they do it. I told him that they aren't "doing it" at all - there is currently no airgun national championship so it can't be said that the NRA is "doing" anything. I told him that if the NRA is not interested in putting on a match, but a club is willing, it is much better to have a club host the match than to have no match at all. We'd even format it however the NRA wants us to. He told me to host a regional, see how the attendance is and maybe he'd reconsider in the future if attendance is good enough. I told him that we want there to be a national championship for the airgun shooters and we'd host a regional if we want but I want him and the committee to sanction a nationals match. There was no getting through to him.

It seems that every time I talk to someone at the NRA I get a bit more frustrated.

Here is my question: If the NRA won't let us host a NATIONAL air rifle silhouette championship, what's to keep us from hosting a WORLD air rifle silhouette championship? Does anyone have jurisdiction over the world championship for air rifles? The IMSSA lists only big bore and smallbore rifles on their website and they don't hold an airgun match. If we created an organization and gave ourselves the power to crown air rifle silhouette world champions, who is to stop us?

Dustin

[ShootingStar]

Hey Dustin,
I'm certainly not the guy knowing the "inside story" of the NRA, their organization or their politics, but we all know that no one is their own boss. Everybody answers to somebody!

Who, above Greg Connor's head, could you contact at the NRA who - with Greg Connor in the room or not - might be willling to listen to the reasoning (and weak arguement given by Greg) for doing/not doing the Nationals at all but allowing you to hold it? This new guy I've seen mentioned in the Silhouettes or Competitions at the NRA, is he the Boss?

Seems to me the NRA's only costs are: Record keeping and posting of winners. IF they have to have an NRA person present to put their thumb print on the proceedings, then maybe the local NRA board member can show up to be the rep. Maybe we can convince the NRA Silhouette folks to at least get one leg out of the box!

ShootingStar

[Innocent]

Welcome to my frustation with Greg Conner, Dustin. Yes, the Southern Nationals have held are registered air rifle match with the promise that if we had at least 70 competitors shoot it we could host a national the following year.
This was done....as far as meeting the 76 competitors, and the promise of the hosting a national air rifle the following year was carried until after the new year, then it was withdrawn by Greg...letters to his boss(director of competitions), etc at the time fell on deaf ears. Good luck.
As for IMSSA, I believe in the past they have had World Air rifle championships, I am not sure about this last March in SA.

Call it whatever you like, who is going to question it.

Mary

[Dee]

8. Tournament Officials as Competitors:If there are no NRA Staff at a National Championship site, the Match
Director, Chief Range Officer and Chief Statistical Officer may NOT compete in any National Championship at
which they are officiating. Rule 11 covers specific duties of Tournament Officials.

Seems this would allow for Greg to sit on his ass and continue to do what he does best, nothing. You know "the way THEY do it" as in NOT AT ALL! They are THE BEST at doing NOTHING I tell ya. Conner for Congress since we aren't moving SLOWLY enough in that area either.

Dustin lets just plan the event and if the NRA wants to join in fine if not they can sit and spin for all I care.

Exactly what would be the difference between an NRA Sanctioned Nationals and a Non-NRA Sanctioned Nationals? From everything I have read and been told you are still on the hook for the event as the host club. It's not like they do a damn thing except get in the F`ing way and then put their hand out for a slice of the entry fees. Who in their right mind would send them money from an event they didn't even want to be held in the first place? So that they can then do what, poor mouth you about no money to run a match that someone else is doing all the work putting on?

Sorry but I no longer see a need for the NRA, sorry NRA you are not fulfilling your end of the deal. But you send me a never ending stream of mail asking for more money. IMO they are nothing more than politicians themselves now pandering for donations while telling you to sit down and shut up.

The NRA is not going to keep the government from coming after our guns. The bullets coming out of our barrels will do that.

I bet if you called Greg and told him we have someone that wants to make a big donation to the NRA at the match he would find a way to get down here.


Dee

[Dee]

Maybe try this person instead? Perhaps she would have a little more interest than NONE in wanting the event to be held since she is supposedly from the Rifle/ Air Gun department. If we can't get some support in whatever form the NRA provides it to host a match between the Silhouette guy and the Air Gun woman I think it safe to say we can officially write off the NRA as actually giving a shit at all.

Sheri Judd
Rifle Department/Air Gun
11250 Waples Mill Road
Fairfax, VA 22030-9400
(703) 267-1477 or 877-672-2000 ext 1477
e-mail: [email protected]
FAX-(703) 267-3941

[dustinflint]

Dee,

Good post.

Lets plan it. Do we want to call it the National Championships or the the World championships??

How about the Air Rifle Silhouette National Championship of the World???

We need to come up with a date. Perhaps we should do it in August so the heat will give us a bit of a home-range advantage!

Dustin

[dustinflint]

I have recieved a few private messages that have been very helpful, as well as the responses to this thread. Thanks to everyone who has chimed in.

Dustin

[KidCulpepper]

While I am relatively new to silhouette, I have been shooting competitively for most of my life. When I started some 30 years ago I was very young (so could have been mistaken) but at the time, had the distinct impression that the NRA was there for gun owners and furthermore, competitive shooters were sort of their "pride and joy". Unfortunately, this no longer seems to be the case and it is truly sad. I am not ready to completely give up on the NRA but at the same time I think we all should do whatever we need to do both as individuals and collectively to promote the shooting sports and support those that do.

On that note, I recently read about a large range complex being planned by the CMP (near Anniston, AL). While this organization is far from perfect, it does seem to have interest in promoting the shooting sports and getting/keeping people involved in competitive shooting. For example, in recent years they have introduced "games" matches which include all types of vintage military rifle competitions and rimfire sporter matches that provide an inexpensive and fun entry point into the shooting world. Basically, the kinds of things we need to help bring in new shooters or reintroduce old shooters to the sports. So, when I learned about their plans and noticed that they did not include any of the silhouette disciplines, I contacted them and encouraged them to consider our sports in their planning even though they do not currently have any involvement in silhouette. Maybe they will consider my proposal and maybe they will ignore me but it cost very little time to give it a try and I would encourage everyone here to do the same.

The CMP web site is http://www.odcmp.com/ - check it out and call or send an email to the competitions division...

[Jerry G]

Maybe it's time to shake up the NRA again. It was done many years ago in Cincinnati so I guess It could be done again. The compitition divison seems to be sadly lacking in joining us in the 2000's.

[Bob259]

Same/similar problems that were had at Ridgway and the Military Rifle 'sanctioned' match they held, no NRA awards, long runs etc even though they sanctioned the match. Just kept their portion of the fees and would not certify any long runs, etc. even thought they approved it and published it in Shooting Sports. Also, same story, or should I say excuse, from Greg, not enough people participating, no money, no staff... blah, blah, blah, face it until Greg leaves Silhouette is destined to decline. Lets just hope it doesn't die because of it.

[Dee]

Perhaps everyone sitting out a year in Raton would send a message if only enough people had the gumption. Perhaps it is a race to see which dies first/last, Conner or Silhouette.

To say show me a certain participation level before we will entertain the idea of giving approval for something "we" don't even currently do nor have we done in the last decade is about a jackassed as you can get. The saying is "build it and they will come" not "come and then we will build it"!

Was the Whittington Center built after people just kept showing up in the middle of nowhere New Mexico to shoot or was it built so that people could go there to shoot?

I usually try my hardest to withhold judgement of people I have never met before but I am willing to make an exception for Obama, Conner oh and that peckerhead that used to come hijack posts. I shall not mention his name for it has been pleasant around here without him.



Dee

[lone ringer]

When Greg was told by the Chairman of the Silhouette Committee that he had to implement and sanction Cowboy Rifle Silhouette matches. Greg did it even he did not want to do it but got even by making us wait five long years before he had the first NRA Cowboy National Championships.

Not going to Raton is not the answer as it is we had to wait two years for the matches to come back to Raton and then the turn out was the lowest ever.

[CWS]

Not a new problem by any means... Elgin Gates and IHMSA showed us the path. My feelings about this subject have been public record since '97 and I do very few things really well, but bearing a grudge is one of them. It's time to think about some alternatives.

[richard]

The lack of an air rifle silhouette national has been a long ongoing source of unhappiness for many of us, me since 1989. The fact is that this is an NRA sanctioned sport. You can run whatever you what but the reality is that nobody will get credit for records set or grand slams or classification. I have shot non-sanctioned matches but I am an advocate of sanctioned matches whatever they are. Everyone can certainly push for a national air rifle match but in the meantime let's go out and shoot and run sanctioned matches and have some fun!
Incidently our air rifle and pistol matches at Falls Twsp. PA don't get anywhere near stellar turnouts! You might consider that too.
Having said all of that you could always go out and start you own organization but as I said above, I strongly prefer sanctioned matches by the national organization. You can always shoot air rifle field target which is not sanctioned by the NRA. It is sanctioned by AAFTA which is a relatively small group of clubs. I shoot both and AAFTA holds a national match every year.
Let's all go shoot what we can as often as we can and let's have fun doing it. If you are near or can drive to the Philadelphia, Pa area check our website and come shoot air rifle and air pistol with us. We will never have the nationals but all of our matches are sanctioned.

Rick Bassett

[dustinflint]

I'm still working on getting an air rifle silhouette nationals sanctioned by the NRA. I havent given up yet! There are a few reasonable people at the NRA.

Dustin