55 grain 223/5.56 Silhouette

[atomicbrh]

Anybody ever thought about a 223/5.56 only Centerfire Silhouette game with bullet weight limited to 55 grains or less with targets and distances scaled for that size bullet? Maybe also having a maximum limit on velocity to prevent target damage instead of a minimum velocity. Lots of folks out there with prairie dog rigs and AR's. Maybe a bolt gun class and a AR class? Maybe different shaped varmints from normal animals? Coyote instead of Ram? Prairie dog instead of Turkey? All loading done from the magazine. Looks to me like the cheapest way to shoot Centerfire Silhouette at reasonably long distances. What have me this idea was a Silhouette competitor friend of mine took a bolt gun and a AR sportical in 223 prairie dog hunting a few years ago. Bolt gun was for long shots. Sportical for anything less than 200 yards. Fellow hunters were amazed with his sportical shots in the standing position at 200 yards while it was their turn on the one portable bench they had. Any thoughts or input?

Bobby R. Huddleston

[Jerry G]

You will have lots of target damage with the 223. It might work if you limited velocities to under 2600 fps.

You might consider setting up for a 17 HMR at longer distances than the rimfire 22.

[stsbuyer]

Bobby,

Not sure if they do it any more but the pistol silhouette guys shot half scale targets from 50 to 200 meters and use 223, 6br, and others. They use AR targets that seem to hold up OK. I think the target damage is more a problem of bullet construction than the velocity that a 223 can push them. To solve the tartget damage maybe use a heavy bullet and not allow solids. I used to use a 22 hornet in hunter pistol and used a 50 gr Speer TNT bullet. Blasted the tartgets off the stand but did no target damage because bullets construction.

[Snake]

How about using center-fire hunter pistol silhouettes (3/8ths scale) at the following ranges 75 yds (chicken) 100 yards pig, 200 turkey and 300 Ram, Limit weight to 12lbs, optics to no more than 10x, no sling, bullet weight limited to no more than 69grains and no less than 55grain(the heavier the slower)...no fmj's or armor piercing

[Jerry G]

Keep in mind guys that thoes pistols arn't developing the velocity the rifles do. It has been my experience that velocity is what does the target damage.

[Snake]

Center fire hunter pistol is max 100 yds and they are hit with 357s 44 mags 32-20 loaded with 30 cal 110gr. That's why i moved the distances and to challenge knock down on the ram with that pipsqueak. 223 more often than not won't take down an HP pig and has trouble with our 200m chicken. The projectile is short and at gas gun speeds shouldn't be particularly damaging. I have access to 22 hunter pistol targets---they're way to thin for experiments Length of the projectile and velocity make for target damage...believe it or not the 140 gr Sierra 7mm Gameking leaves deep bright dings on chicks and pigs!!

[1armoured]

We've been shooting 200 mtr silhouette here for a while, mostly at scaled paper animals, and discarded Handgun MS 200mtr chickens.
The mild steel chickens take a hammering from anything at 200, except the mostly cast stuff that the handgunners use.
My .308 puts a 155gr Palma @ 2,700, through after the 2nd hit in the same place, (but a .30 cal diam bolt fills the hole nicely !)

We've just had a scaled full set of special hardened steel made, Bisalor 460, I believe.

Any calibre is allowed, but no FMJ's. and a test plate is setup to ensure that there is no damage, before anyone is allowed to shoot at the animals.
Nothing has damaged the targets as yet.

So it is feasible, but you have to have the right steel, or limit the projectiles, and test before any damage is done, (and not after !!!)

But why limit to .223/5.56 ?
Let people shoot what they 'brung' !

Here's my well used cardboard scaled silhouettes,
and my trusty Sako .308, (beats a 7mm/08 in a firefight any day !!!)
(Never dinged a Ram yet, (with 175grs), McAlice !) But got to hit them first, I suppose !!!

I've just loaded down to the 110gr V-Max .30cal, for a bit more velocity, (2,800) and less recoil. (about 9 ft/lbs). They shoot good.




cheers,
SS

[lone ringer]

Handgun Silhouette shooters have half size targets that are shot at 50, 100, 150 and 200 meters. They are the same size as the Hunter's pistol targets but on steroids to stand the punishment of the calibers some of those guys use like 6mm BR, 6.5 BR, 6.5X47 Lapua, 7TCU, 7BR, etc. They do not use reduced loads either. On the other hand at one of the local clubs they let rifle shooters shoot at those same targets as long as we use cast bullets or reduce our load to less than 2000 fps to ensure we are not going to damage the targets. It really does not make sense that they may shoot 2600 fps with their pistols at the same targets but they do not want rifle shooters to use full loads with jacketed bullets.
For rifle shooters true half size targets would have to be shot at 100, 150, 192.5 and 250 meters. I have shot that match many times and the only targets that challenge me some are the turkeys at 150 and the rams at 200 meters.

[Snake]

We've been shooting 200 mtr silhouette here for a while, mostly at scaled paper animals, and discarded Handgun MS 200mtr chickens.
T!!)


Here's my well used cardboard scaled silhouettes,
and my trusty Sako .308, (beats a 7mm/08 in a firefight any day !!!)
(Never dinged a Ram yet, (with 175grs), McAlice !) But got to hit them first, I suppose !!!

I've just loaded down to the 110gr V-Max .30cal, for a bit more velocity, (2,800) and less recoil. (about 9 ft/lbs). They shoot good.



cheers,
SS

200 meters!!! I should hope you don't ding rams. Why even a 6 mm would be in the high reliability spectrum. I will note that that bullet hole off the neck/chest of the cardboard ram looks like one of mine
As far as firefights are concerned no 30 cal should ever take on a 7 or 6.5.....for sheer precision...but if we're talking belt-fed then gimme the .308 (7.62 nato)

[russ4570]

All
We tried this in the mid 90's in Batemans Bay NSW. Distance was out to 300. 1/2 scale targets and limited to 22 cal and 2900fps.
The other challenge was no scope adjustment. BUT WHY you scream
Well the idea was to try and get the average joe to bring his/her 222/223/22 whatever to the club and get interested in silhouette and generally target shooting.
The discipline lasted a few yrs but as far as I am aware it faded out. I was fun though. If we were to try it again I would like to allow scope adj, as it could be a good cheap training platform.

Russ

[Snake]

Perhaps its time for the black rifle....i want to think our bolt guns are just in a lull! Hardened steel is expensive and cutting out half pint targets makes for a costly experiment. The newbee black rifle guys love the bipod...so I'm wary of drawing them in to competition with their new "I think I'm a warrior" rifle. Competition is reality and black rifles like video games support (more often than not) fantasy. Don't get me wrong i have black rifles and use them on prairie dogs and other varmit control and the occasional f-class tourney ...and as my answer to concealed carry ....but the bolt gun is still the surgical instrument...a true rifleman's joy when its accurate. Our game is about precision and skill and watching things go 'clank' and fall over with a little drama....if we as competitors help the new guy and stay cordial and we keep good match directors...and we hustle some prizes...we can bring the numbers back

[Taps]

G'day All
Yes we did shoot 1/2 size at Batemans Bay and it was intended as a way of getting more shooters into silhouette. A lot of shooters in Australia have a .22 cal centrefire in the safe. The targets were set: Chickens @ 100m, Pigs @ 150m, Turkeys @ 175m and Rams @ 200m. The intent of the no scope adjustment rule was so that people with low power hunting scopes were not at a disadvantage. It wasn't much of a drama as you zeroed at turkeys and held at the foot on chickens, belly line on pigs and horn height on the rams, with a .222rem that is. I think Russ enjoyed it because as I recall he won the last Championship event we shot.

Taps.

[malinois]

I like the idea of half scale silhouette and even talked about it a couple of years back...only because we have no 500 meter ranges in florida that shoot high power...but there are few 300 yard ranges where it could be shot and most of those clubs still have thier old 1/2 scale pistol animals around collecting dust. sutable calibers would be 22 hornet , 222-223 family with a slower load...the tcu family 6, 6.5 and 7mm even the 6 and 7br with a slower load too.

[Jason]

I would definitely shoot a scaled-down version of highpower silhouette with a .223 Rem. It would be crazy cheap to load for compared to full-distance with full-size targets.

[Jerry G]

I think it would be fun and cheeper. I do like the idea of the test plate to assure no target damage. I think if the velocities were kept down to around 2600 or less it would work just fine.