Anyone shooting black powder in cowboy silhouette?

[w30wcf]

Just curious if anyone shoots b.p. in cowboy silhouette. Interestingly, I have found that the right combination will give very good accuracy (10 shot groups in the 2" range at 100 yards if I do my part) for a complete match.

My experience to date has been with replications of vintage early .38 Special black powder and 44-40 cartridges in my Marlin Cowboy rifles.

The early 38 Special b.p. cartridges were factory loaded with 21.5 grs of b.p. and a 158 gr. bullet. I use the same powder charge in 357 Magnum brass & 40 grs. in the 44-40.

I have found the type of black powder is critical for continued accurate shooting in a repeating rifle. Testing has shown that SWISS b.p. definitely has the edge over Goex and Schuetzen.

What fun it is to step back in time and shoot the ammunition that our forefathers would have used if Cowboy Silhouette was around in the late 1800's........

w30wcf

[jnyork]

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What fun it is to step back in time and shoot the ammunition that our forefathers would have used if Cowboy Silhouette was around in the late 1800's........

w30wcf

I doubt if they really did that, fiberoptic sights weren't even invented then.

[Cimarron Red]

Hi, Jack,

I've not shot black at lever action silhouettes, but I've thought about it often. The problem, of course, is that fouling control is difficult given the time limitations. I often break my last shot in a 5 shot string with 20 or 25 seconds left on the timer. So using a blow tube would require some rushing. Wiping after each shot isn't practical, either. So I think if I were to try black I would use duplex loads. I've shot such loads twice just to try them, and the lack of fouling was impressive, to say the least. So 3 to 5 grains of, say 4759, and 60 grains of Swiss FFg under a 300 grainer in the .45-70 should do the trick nicely. Using a BP lube, also, would be advisable. Have you actually shot black in a match?

[lone ringer]

There are several shooters using BP in Cowboy silhouette in CA and AZ but I am not one of them so can't offer any data as far as what loads they may be using.
But I will say that several state Championships in CA and AZ have been won using BP so fouling must not be an issue with them. I have also seen shooters at Nationals using BP.

[w30wcf]

Cimmaron Red,
Yes, I have shot b.p. in the last few matches this year and did well (for me) with it. Prior to shooting a complete match I did some testing to be sure that accuracy could be maintained throughout without cleaning or blow tubing. I used SPG lube in combination with the early b.p. bullets (358250 & 427098) and SWISS b.p. to achieve that result. I found in testing that SWISS was the only b.p. that would do it. With Goex and Schuetzen, a hard ring of fouling would begin to develop at muzzle back into the barrel,destroying accuracy.

Perhaps the cartridges using less powder than the 45-70 would have a tendency to foul less in a repeating rifle over many shots. Your idea of a duplex loading for the 45-70 is a good one.

One thing that is an advantage where I shoot is that the humidity is almost always over 50%. I have read that in areas where there is low humidity (less than 20%) fouling is more of a problem. To that end there is some lube testing going on at the Cast Boolit forum where it appears that lube recipies containing mineral wax might be a bit superior to lubes with beeswax as a component. Start with http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/sho ... 885&page=6 Kenny W's test is post #165.

Tony,
Thank you for that information. Very interesting! Glad to hear that other folks are doing it and very well too!

w30wcf

[Cimarron Red]

Jack,

Do you clean between relays? I can't imagine not doing so.

[w30wcf]

Cimmaron Red,
Interestingly, I did not have to clean between relays. Prior to shooting in a 40 shot match, I fired 45 rounds off the bench with no cleaning or blow tubing and the accuracy held up great with no hard ring of fouling with SWISS that I had experienced with Goex & Schuetzen.

Jack

[Cimarron Red]

Jack,

Despite the fact that I, too, use Swiss powder, here in the land of 16% relative humidity I'd have a black encrusted bore were I to neglect wiping after a relay, let alone after an entire match. Even at Ridgway, Shippensburg and McDonald, when I used a blow tube, I would still clean between relays. This was in BPCR silhouettes of course.

[w30wcf]

Cimarron Red,
The much lower RH at your location would be an issue for sure.
Have you tried shooting any b.p. "pistol" cartridge leverguns in your environment with SWISS?

Jack

[Cimarron Red]

Jack,

I've shot BP in the .45 Colt at CAS matches, but that was in PA. Also, I used Goex for CAS, and I had to swab the bores of my rifle and revolvers between stages to head off crusty fouling. I haven't shot black in CAS since I moved here.

[w30wcf]

Cimarron Red,
It would be interesting to try SWISS in your 45 Colt just to see the difference. I have a Marlin 45 Colt Cowboy Ltd that I purchased back in 1997.
It was my first repeating rifle that I tried b.p. in. I quickly found that SWISS worked so much better than Goex which developed a hard ring of fouling in the last few inches of the barrel after 10-15 rounds. SWISS did not and continued to shoot accurately for a number of rounds.

The bullet I used was the traditional 454190. I did eventually purchased a "Big Lube" mold from DD (Dick Dastardly) which holds a whopping 2 1/2 grs of lube which allowed Goex to work without the hard ring of fouling developing.....but groups at 100 yards were typically double those of the 454190.

What bullet are you using?

Jack

[krgriggs]

I would love to try black but I just figured my first shot from a clean barrel would go high, since most matches we do not sight in before I have no choice but to shoot the first from a clean barrel. Also what about the smoke created for the guy next to you trying to shoot targets through your smoke. But this topic has made think of tring it!

[Cimarron Red]

Jack,

I, too, shot the 454190 as well as a commercial (Meister) 200 grainer with the hard lube replaced with SPG. I also shot a Saeco 250 grainer (number escapes me at the moment). As I noted, I used Goex but I also tried KIK with the same or worse reuslts, requiring me to clean between stages. I had begun to shoot Swiss at BPCR matches back then, but I was loathe to 'waste' it at CAS.

Jack, swithching gears here, what are the dates for the PA state shoot next year? Is it at Bradford? I may have some family business to attend to and I will have some flexibility in scheduling it.

krgriggs,

Smoke may be a problem, but where I shoot, wind is the norm and dead calm would be cause for a news report!

[cslcAl]

Red, The Pa State Cowboy matches are at Tiadaghton Sportsmen's near Waterville ,Pa; Sept 10th and 11th. I am the match director so if you need more info e-mail me.

Al Foust

[Cimarron Red]

Thanks a ton, Al.