The hook is set........

[lone ringer]

Bob, First I have to tell you that from 1978 until 1983 when I got my right cheekbone broken I was a die hard 308 shooter and my 200 gr load for rams was not even recommended in the Sierra loading manual. After that I had to look for milder recoiling calibers and ended up using a 7-08 ringing more rams than I care to remember.

I also used 7MM IHMSA with about the same results but I was pretty much satisfied until Jim Feren sold me a rifle with 3 barrels chambered in 6.5mm Bryan a wild cat caliber that had about the same capacity as a 6.5 IHMSA and 10,000 Norma 140 gr bullets which I did not like much and sold to people that did like them.

At that time the only match bullets that I could use were the 120 and 140 Matchkings but I also buy 144 Lapua bullets that were deadly on the rams. Remember than until a few years ago we could only use factory chambering for the Hunting rifle class matches so I could not use any of the IHMSA chamberings or the 6.5 Bryan.

It was my experience and also for most other shooters that the both the 308 and 7-08 was a bit hard to handle in 9 lbs rifles, winning with scores in the mid to high twenties was the norm, then in the early 1990

[Bob Mc Alice]

Hi Tony, thanks for the post. All kidding and clowning around aside, I know many of you are having great success with the various 6.5's. I , too, continue to have equal success with my particular 7-08 loads.

I started using this cartridge in 1994. Prior to this I was using my 788 in .308, and the Ruger 77 in 7x57. I even shot a few matches with that old M70 .30-06. Since starting with the 7-08, I can remember fewer than a dozen lost rams, different than your experience with it. The most recent lost ram was at St. Louis this past August. A solid center chest hit failed to tip him. For any number of reasons, we will all continue to lose one once and awhile no matter what diameter bullet we choose.

I am not trying to force my views of the 7-08 on any one. It has a well deserved reputation as being an excellent multi task cartridge. And as you know, is still quite popular on the silhouette line. I like it alot and will continue to use it exclusively.

Intellegent people will make caliber/cartridge selections based on what the current trend is, as well as digesting sage advice from experienced , knowlegable people like yourself. You are highly regarded in the silhouette game, Tony.

Some day I may join the 6.5 camp. One fear I have is that I may really like it and abandon the 7-08 all together. I got way too much invested in the 7-08.

I will be at the Gateway Dynamite shoot this Saturday, using what else?, that recently rebarreled M700 7-08. I will be using those 120 V-max bullets I bought from your friend at Phoenix last April. They shoot one hole at 100 yds. The next day I will be in Craig to shoot an antelope with the same gun with 140gr. Sierras. I will post pictures of the weekend when I get back..............Bob M.

[BlauBear]

When I started looking at high power my experience was limited to service arms, mostly M-14's and M-16's. For those without that frame of reference, think .308 with a steel butt plate and a soft shooting AR style rifle.

Thirty years later it was hard to consider shooting a 40 round match with anything like the '14, and AR's are disqualified for silhouette, so I was reluctant to try. Then I began reading about the Remington .260 and it's cousin the Lapua 6.5x47 and the project began to seem more reasonable. Now it sounds like the 7-08 is close, but I'd probably stay with a variant of the 6.5 for a high power build.

[Bob Mc Alice]

A common denominator in what determines a good HP round is probably ram knockdown performance....right? My own 7-08 ram load sends a 168 MK on it's way at about 2600 fps.MV. According to the Sierra manual it is still doing about 1950 fps at 500 yds. and delivering a little over 1400 ft.lbs.

What are typical MV's for the 140-142 6.5 bullets?.... Is 900 ft.lbs still considered the acceptable minimum to push a ram over reliably?

[BlauBear]

Hmmm... Dunno. Some maintain a 123 grain Matchking is the right all 'round tool for 6.5, but from general buzz I'd probably want more than that. Kitty, you have a shelf full of reloading manuals, what do they say?

[jneihouse]

Don't have anything on the shelf that has data on the 6.5X47 Lapua, my loads were worked up drawing on others experience and considerable info available over on 6mmbr.com. Some of those guys have done extensive groundbreaking work on the round.

Both Tony and Bob Mc have a much deeper well of experience to draw from than I on highpower due to the fact, as you well know, our opportunities are rather limited around here.

But I can tell you, based on personal experience, that 123's over 36 grains of Varget will reliably take rams. 142's will certainly take rams very dependably with this caution...push 142 SMK's too fast and they will blow up on the ram without enough dwell time on target to transfer enough energy to knock a flat footed ram over. Ballistics and the things that make a bullet perform as it does downrange is almost unfathomable to a "gotta see it myself" person like me. Things I have learned along the way is that bigger is not always better and faster is not always finer.

One of the things that endeared me to the 6.5X47 Lapua was the fact that it uses less powder to achieve the same results as the larger cased 6.5, the 260 remington. Less powder, sharper pressure curve, less recoil, I like it.

I'm sure the 7-08 is a great round as is the 6.5X47L ...Having these choices make for great "benchracing" sessions when it gets too cold and wet to take em out and run em....

Kitty

[BlauBear]

Wouldn't a sharper pressure curve mean sharper recoil? It seems like a slower burn, as in a .260, spreads the recoil over a slightly longer period of time.

[lone ringer]

Bob, thank you for the kind words and good luck this weekend I wish I could be there myself.

To me the 6.5's I use are a great compromise of a caliber that kicks like a .243 with the lighter bullets and performs almost as good as the 7-08 at the ram line with the right loads.

As for the 7mm VS 6.5 I do not think you are handicapping yourself with a 7-08, our friend Dan Theodore designed what he determined to be the ultimate silhouette cartridge. Its a 7mm BR designed to use Lapua 6mm BR brass which is much stronger than Remington brass.

Jared Perry from California has been using it for the last few years with great success. I believe he uses 175 Sierra's or some other bullets with high ballistic coefficient (read VLD) like the custom JKL bullets for rams, I am not sure what he uses for short range but could very well be 139 Hornady bullets.

There is a tread in either Graybeard or Steelchickens about the project in which he designed the reamer and worked out the loading data. Marvin Pearson put the rifle together and Jared Perry ended up with it.

When you run out of 168 gr bullets I suggest you get some 175 Sierra Matchkings, you will like them better on rams than the 168's.

I do not like sharing loading data in a public forum for obvious reasons but I like using mild loads of 6.5mm 123gr Lapua bullets for the first three distances specially in windy conditions and near max loads of Lapua 6.5mm 139/144 bullets for rams.

Regarding the 123's for rams I have friends in Arizona that use them and love them. I have tried 123gr Lapua bullets at rams myself and although they are extremely accurate at 500 meters they did not prove to be reliable at knocking the rams down at Pala, CA. They were max loads by the way.

[deadeyeky]

Bob Mc Alice wrote:

I started using this cartridge in 1994. Prior to this I was using my 788 in .308, and the Ruger 77 in 7x57. I even shot a few matches with that old M70 .30-06. Since starting with the 7-08, I can remember fewer than a dozen lost rams, different than your experience with it. The most recent lost ram was at St. Louis this past August. A solid center chest hit failed to tip him. For any number of reasons, we will all continue to lose one once and awhile no matter what diameter bullet we choose.

very true, i rang a ram using a 308 and 200 gr SMK's!!!! max load also...... then we switched to 190 gr SMKs and never rang a ram with that gun ever again