Heavy .30-30 bullet / loads

[mordecai]

Doing some curiosity research.

People have shot some 200gr & 220gr lead bullets down a .30-30 with decent success.

The biggest problem they run into is chambering the cartridge and the bullet gets stuck in the rifling before being fully closed (bullets too long).

Anyhow, thought I'd ask what the consensus is on what the heaviest bullet (cast/coated/jacketed) that reasonably fits in most actions and throats is?

[cedestech]

FWIW and I only have experience with '94s and some 336s... anything close to touching lands won't reliably cycle up from the mag. If you are single loading from the open chamber that is another story but most I have seen have way too much freebore to get close AND cycle up.

To answer your direct question, I've never rang a properly hit ram with a full power 150g that didn't fall. I'd think 170 jacketed at full power would be extra insurance.

If you wanted to "thump" with heavy lead 38/55 would be a better option...

YMMV and IMHO...

[DonM]

If you can get past the overall length/cycling problem with bullets heavier than 170 grains will be the twist of your rifle. With the lower velocity of those heavy bullets, you might find the twist in the barrel to slow to stabilize them enough to get decent accuracy.

[375Short]

The 173g Lyman FPGC is the classic heavy cast bullet for the 30-30. You can seat about any bullet deep enough to feed but you run into issues already mentioned and a few more. Will your rate of twist stabilize the bullet? When you crimp (especially in a lever gun) a deeply seated bullet, will there be something left for the edge of the case mouth to contact? If a gas check is used and the gas check is below the case neck it can fall off into the case. At best that bullet isn’t going where it’s supposed to. If you work through those issues heavy bullets loaded mild are effective, low recoil, options. There are some heavy coated bullets meant for the 300 blackout that would be great but you would be very lucky if they stabilized in the relatively slow twist rates of a 30-30 barrel.

As cedestech said, a larger bore diameter may be the more practical approach to launching heavier bullets from a leveraction.

[mordecai]

Yeah, those are the issues I imagined.
It was a thought experiment, although I figured someone already did all the field work long ago, about how close you could replicate .38-55 from a .30 cal barrel.

I might tinker with a few of the heavy plated sub bullets for .300BLK just to see what happens.

--M

[DAVIDMAGNUM]

To answer your direct question, I've never rang a properly hit ram with a full power 150g that didn't fall. I'd think 170 jacketed at full power would be extra insurance.

I have seen 30/30 with a 180gr bullet and a "slight" overcharge of Varget ring 200 meter rams. ( no, not my rifle or load)

So, when I finally decided to get a dedicated LAR rifle and use my 44WCF for pistol caliber and only as a backup for LAR I got a 38/55.
It may be overkill, but my ram load is effective and easy to shoot/low recoil. A 290gr grease groove bullet, no gas check and 25gr of H4895. Then when the H4895 disappeared I found 28gr of Varget has the same sight settings and "feel". With both of these loads any full bullet impact has knocked over the 200 meter rams at the four ranges I have used it.
Even with a 38/55 I continue to see the occasional ram not fall with a "good hit" by other shooters. This is usually with a 220gr or 250gr bullet and pistol powder like Unique or Blue Dot.

Just my 2 cents.
David

[PAndy]

I had a winchester that shot well with an RCBS 180-fp bullet...weighed 198 gr with gas check. Worked well. Not accurate in my Marlins.

Three things have to work together in your particular rifle, so going heavy for caliber can be challenging. The same is true when developing a heavy bullet .357 load for CLA.

The bullet has to fit the chamber/leade so you can close the bolt of course. Leverguns vary.

The overall length of the round must allow it to feed from the magazine.

The twist rate has to stabilize the long bullet at the speed you want to shoot it.

[H.Plummer]

I shoot a 1950 Winchester 94 with a 1:12 twist using a 173gr gas checked bullet (Lyman 311041, BHN22) from Montana Bullet Works. It feeds and chambers beautifully and has never rang a ram no matter where I hit it. I estimate my velocity to be about 1600 fps and I can shoot it all day without any kind of butt pad.
Just more info for your curiosity.

[kendog]

I shoot a 1950 Winchester 94 with a 1:12 twist using a 173gr gas checked bullet (Lyman 311041, BHN22) from Montana Bullet Works. It feeds and chambers beautifully and has never rang a ram no matter where I hit it. I estimate my velocity to be about 1600 fps and I can shoot it all day without any kind of butt pad.
Just more info for your curiosity.

Coming in late to the discussion. I want to work up a good mid range load for a 26" 30-30. What is your load for the 311041?

[H.Plummer]

Kendog, I load 22 gr. of Accurate 5744. My bore is about .309" so I get my bullets sized .311.
On a side note, Montana Bullet Works is now out of business so I'm searching for a new supplier for the bullets. The Cast Bullet Shop in Georgia casts the 311041 and they look pretty good but I haven't spoke to them yet. Good luck!

[375Short]

You probably won’t be disappointed with Tony’s bullets from the Cast Bullet Shop. They are my go to option in the cast bullet world. Place your order a few months ahead of time, he is busy all the time.

I wanted the 30-30 to work really bad and spent several months working with 200-215 grain bullets at low velocity. Two different 94 commemorative models with 26” barrel. I couldn’t get the bullets fully stable at 200. They always showed some signs of destabilization, groups were extremely variable and things got worse in a wind. I decided to stay with my .357 for CLA. I think more velocity may have solved the problem but that’s always at the price of more recoil.

[PAndy]

The slower twist of my old Winchester didn't work with slow heavy bullets. I had to push 198 gr over 1700 fps to stabilize them. It would shoot mild 155 gr bullet loads very well.

Better chance of slow heavy success with a 10" twist marlin.
Especially if interested in 200 gr bullets .

Another thumbs up for the Cast Bullet Shop. High quality and reasonably priced. Tony is a little slow (busy) but is honest about his turnaround time. Matt's bullets usually much faster, if you need some short notice. YMMV

[edgehit]

I've been on a subsonic/heavy bullet quest for the past 9 months because others have shown me it works. Here are some ideas for a subsonic 30-30.

Velocity and bullet's length & diameter are key factors to predicting stabilization. Weight has nothing to do with it. You can use JBM's calculator to model stability of your load https://jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

A 205g RN shot from a 357 mag rifle has performed well for Wayne, winning last summer's Western CLA match.

A 2.1-inch, 200gr RN from a 30-30 should stabilize fine at subsonic speed with a 12 twist barrel. This bullet would be about 2.1" long and will take down all but the most stubborn rams.

The remaining issue at hand is access to retail bullets, either jacketed or cast that will meet your stabilization and accuracy requirements. I can't find any jacketed bullets or retail cast bullets that meet the constraints. This will leave you rolling your own. Accurate molds has several molds to choose from.

If you cast your own, read on...

Then you'll have a difficult time finding load data. For those experienced handloaders, you can try Hodgdon's recommended powders for reduced loads like H4895 and IMR4198. Others to test are double-based powders suitable for magnum revolver rounds like, LilGun, 1680, N110, & 5744. I've found these perform very well at reduced V 30-30 rounds.

QuickLoad provides a good reference for starting loads.

Avoid the faster burning pistol powders because I've experienced first shot fliers on paper and on the chronograph. Once the barrel is warmed up they shoot phenomenally well with low ES and SD. The fast powders will initially have you convinced they're the bee's knees until you go back to retest and see the cold shot flier.

Nothing I've proposed here is for beginners.

[375Short]

10.7 of AA#9 with some poly fluff showed promise as did 14g SR4759 topped off with Puflon. Both under a 200g cast. The #9 was a little over 1300fps and the 4759 a little over 1400fps. Both were 2” at 100y and 3”-7” at 200y. The 3” is just dandy but the equal number of groups to 7” not so confident inspiring. Probably solvable problem but it was easy to just go back to what was working in the .357

[edgehit]

Hodgdon reloading site has 300 BO data for a 205g bullet that would be a good starting point for 30-30. There are 11 powders listed. 1680 is traditionally the subsonic accuracy load for 300 BO.

There's also data for supersonic 300 BO available to reference.