Subsonic 30-30 loads

[TheBugFather]

My thinking is if Hornady makes a factory 30-30 subsonic round that is good enough to hunt deer and pigs with already, it should be good enough for us to use in lever action silhouette. We are after all, shooting at targets originally designed for Handgun Silhouette.

I have more to say about this and have already done testing of this and other subsonic 200 meter loads in 357mag and 44mag, that have all worked for me.

Just looking for ideas and other peoples experiences.

Good luck everyone at the Western Lever Action Championship, I am sorry to miss it this year!

Thanks, Dennis Ostler

[PAndy]

When I shoot 200m event with a .357, I think my pig loads are subsonic. With a heavier bullet (180 gr) it seems to work fine so far. The only way to get more knockdown power with a subsonic load is to use a heavy bullet.

Regardless of what's printed on the box, I wouldn't hunt deer with the Hornady subsonic ammo!
I think shooting subsonic jacketed bullets out of longer rifle barrels is a little risky.

My old Winchester 94 12" twist would not stabilize slow heavy bullets over 160 grains. Marlins seem better at that.

[TheBugFather]

PAndy, I totally agree the bullet weight is the main key to it, also bullet construction plays a big part.

Dennis

[DAVIDMAGNUM]

I know that it is a different caliber, but this may be useful information.
For LAR I use the 38-55.
For chickens and pigs my 250gr, 20-1 alloy (soft) bullet has a muzzle velocity of 900fps.
This very slow load has no problem knocking over the full size chickens or pigs.
Why beat yourself up when you don't have to??

This load also helps me maintain follow through. The recoil is so light that I can watch the animal fall through the sights.

[TheBugFather]

David, exactly my experience too, what load do you use for your Turkeys and Rams?

Only negative so far, is increased wind drift at 200 meters on windy days.

I agree with the follow through, I normally try to spot my hits through the front sight when using my 22 rifle.

My 44 mag, with 240gr bullets didn't have trouble knocking over the rams subsonic, but that big frontal area didn't help when it was windy.

I'm hoping to have better luck with my 30-30 using 180+ gr bullets subsonic.

Next up to try, I have some 220gr bullets coming this week ...I would expect at least similar results, if not better, to my 44mag loads.

My 200gr 357 mag loads worked very well, just a little difficult to load well.

I had tried a custom molded 357mag bullet that I had designed, worked well at about 220gr, of course subsonic.

I may give it a try again, when I have another 357mag rifle available, I tried it at several rams at 200 that were standing in the dirt and had quite a few that were knocked over.

On the regular ram stands, it would make a very loud Bong/Gong sound and slam them off the stands.

Below are pictures of my 357 mag loads, using 180gr speer and 200 Hornady 35 Rem bullets. Left is 357 mag brass, right is 38 spl brass, far left is 180gr 357 mag to compare.

Also below is a pulled Hornady subsonic 30-30 hunting load, does anyone recognize the powder they use?

Thanks, Dennis

[DAVIDMAGNUM]

BugFather
I was using the 250gr bullet and 7gr of Trailboss out to turkeys. Again, knocks them over with no issues. The problem I was having was accuracy out to 150 meters. My rear sight was really cranked up from pigs to turkeys. It seemed to me (no proof) that a small change in vertical sight movement made a large difference in bullet placement. I started using my Ram load on turkeys also.
After seeing rams "rung" and ringing rams with my previous rifle & caliber I came up with the following.

A 290gr .381 w/w alloy bullet, CCI#250 and 25gr of H4895. This load has a muzzle velocity of 1475fps. Did not "ring" any rams even with center and low belly hits. This was two shooting seasons.

I ran out of H4895.

Much testing.

Same bullet and primer with 28gr Varget and a .125in paper wad from Circle Fly Wads. A case full of Varget worked well (32.5gr) but with too much recoil. 28gr of Varget was awful, 15 - 20in groups at 200 meters. The Circle Fly wad makes 28gr a slightly compressed load and gives me under 4" groups at 200 meters. A bonus is this load is only slightly faster than my H4895 load and is one minute of elevation off.

Why Varget? I have 9lbs of the stuff. H4895 can't be had for less than $100 a pound IF you can find it.

[TheBugFather]

David, I've been using the now discontinued Vihtavuori N32c (Tin Star), similar but slightly less bulk density as Trailboss, but a little more energy per grain.

Fortunately, with a friends help, I was able to get another 12 lbs of the stuff.

I currently use about 9 grains of it under a 170/180gr Jacketed 30-30 bullet at about 1050fps from a 20" barrel.

The load is slightly over 50% case fill, so no risk of double charge with good load density especially when the long bullet is seated.

I will probably have to jack that up a little with the 220gr bullets that are coming, to keep it in the 1080fps range.

Thanks,

Dennis O.

[TheBugFather]

Well, I tried the 220 grain Hornady round nose and got mixed results.

One shot looks like it hit straight on at 200 meters and one hit the target sideways.

I was shooting at a bank in the dirt at about a 20-25 degree angle to the right of my shooting position.

They hit the target at about 850 fps, the sideways one looks like it just vaporized on the target (note the liquid lead coating on the inside copper jacket).

The straight on one looks like it crumpled like a tin can.

Not the results I had hoped for.

My first thought was the sideways one must have been tumbling, but not sure because of the other one and the fact that it still hit the target over 200 meters away, with that bad of a tumble I doubt that it would have even hit the side of a barn. I just don't know.

The targets were standing in the dirt, but it didn't look like the 220's drove the feet back at all (no drag marks).

The 180's on an earlier test with a low hit on the leg/thigh drove the same foot back about 3-4 inches in the dirt.

I think I will concentrate on the 180's moving forward.

That is why I'm looking for the Sierra 180's, they seem to have a heavier tapered jacket than the Hornady's.

Just posting this stuff, if anyone is also interested like I am.

Almost no recoil shooting these things.

Thanks, Dennis

[DonM]

The thing you just ran up against with the 200 grain bullet is the bullet loosing stability due to the velocity being low and the length of the bullet to long for the twist. You might get that bullet to stay stable at the 200 meter mark with a bit more velocity, but if it gets into any wind along the way all bets are off.
The same phenomenon happens in BPTR when folks are trying to drive a very long and heavy bullet in a capacity challenged case and a slow twist barrel. The bullet looses it's stability somewhere down range and if you pick them up in the spotting scope they look like they're riding on a spiral staircase hand rail.
In the 12 twist of most 30-30's any bullet longer than the 170's are likely to deal you fits at times.