What is considered and acceptable group?
- DavidABQ
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What is considered and acceptable group?
So if I was hypothetically testing .22 LR ammo at 100 yards inside a tunnel so wind is not a factor, what sort of group size would be considered satisfactory for silhouette competition?
- Uncle Grouch
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Re: What is considered and acceptable group?
I have heard all kinds of opinions on this and the obvious answer is “as small as possible.’ Realizing that is not a particularly helpful answer, I always work to get my rifles at 1 MOA or less. More specifically, about an inch at 100 meters. My 1712 with CenterX shoots about a 3/4 inch group at 100 meters. If only I could shoot that well.
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Re: What is considered and acceptable group?
And that is about as good as it is ever going to get.
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Re: What is considered and acceptable group?
I have an older Evelio built franken-hunter. 54:18/Lija Barrel/Pharr RST stock.... the barrel chamber looks very sad through a bore scope... it still shoots MOA outdoors when the wind is calm and I do my part.... I really don't think you can ask for much more. Wind tunnel and rifle clamp.
As stated earlier, the smallest group possible is the correct answer.... which you have to temper with the ammo price involved.... if you can get MOA with SK std vs 1/2 MOA with R50.... is that 1/2 MOA worth the extra cost? If it is then no problem. If not then don't ruin good enough by striving for excellence.
As stated earlier, the smallest group possible is the correct answer.... which you have to temper with the ammo price involved.... if you can get MOA with SK std vs 1/2 MOA with R50.... is that 1/2 MOA worth the extra cost? If it is then no problem. If not then don't ruin good enough by striving for excellence.
Emmett Dibble, Houston, Texas. Where's my buddy Jason? Keeper of electronic records and banisher of little pieces of paper?
- DavidABQ
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Re: What is considered and acceptable group?
Hmmmm, one MOA? Thank you, that gives me some sort of benchmark/goal by which to judge ammo. I am not a 1/2 MOA shooter but I understand your point. Buy as much accuracy/ precision as you are able to exploit.
Thank you everyone.
Thank you everyone.
- Sporty
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Re: What is considered and acceptable group?
Wouldn't ammo at 2 MOA from the bench theoretically hit a 1/5 scale ram every time?
-Charlie Meli
Match director @ Piedmont Gun Club, Rutherdfordton, NC
Match director @ Piedmont Gun Club, Rutherdfordton, NC
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Re: What is considered and acceptable group?
My ancient tablet triple posted.
Last edited by atomicbrh on Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is considered and acceptable group?
My ancient tablet triple posted.
Last edited by atomicbrh on Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is considered and acceptable group?
The reason they want 1 MOA at 100 meters to hit the ram 100 percent of the time is because of all the variables: quick wind changes the spotter cannot call fast enough, wind changes that happen just as the trigger is pulled, that one round out a brick that was not quite the same as the other 499, varying light conditions especially on overcast days, the odd irregular shape of silhouette targets(not round like a bullseye), etc.
A standing 2 MOA hold is not good enough for 100 percent ram hits in 100 percent of the match conditions we experience.
A few years ago when it fully "sunk in" what kind of hold it takes for 100 percent smallbore ram hits, I seriously considered quitting and finding another hobby.
A standing 2 MOA hold is not good enough for 100 percent ram hits in 100 percent of the match conditions we experience.
A few years ago when it fully "sunk in" what kind of hold it takes for 100 percent smallbore ram hits, I seriously considered quitting and finding another hobby.
- Sporty
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Re: What is considered and acceptable group?
What if he wasn't in a tunnel like the OP qualified? Is 2 MOA at rams acceptable?atomicbrh wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:40 pm The reason they want 1 MOA at 100 meters to hit the ram 100 percent of the time is because of all the variables: quick wind changes the spotter cannot call fast enough, wind changes that happen just as the trigger is pulled, that one round out a brick that was not quite the same as the other 499, varying light conditions especially on overcast days, the odd irregular shape of silhouette targets(not round like a bullseye), etc.
A standing 2 MOA hold is not good enough for 100 percent ram hits in 100 percent of the match conditions we experience.
A few years ago when it fully "sunk in" what kind of hold it takes for 100 percent smallbore ram hits, I seriously considered quitting and finding another hobby.
-Charlie Meli
Match director @ Piedmont Gun Club, Rutherdfordton, NC
Match director @ Piedmont Gun Club, Rutherdfordton, NC
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Re: What is considered and acceptable group?
I think that 1 1/2 minute would be the upper limit. For club matches you might get by with 2 min stuff. Most of the moderate priced ammo will group under 2 min in a decent rifle. If you love to see steel fall in practice, you could shoot junk ammo ar 3/8 size animals. Shooting paper in practice will tell you more than shooting steel. You will have a record of every shot you take that doesn't lie to you.
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Re: What is considered and acceptable group?
1 Minute of Angle at 100 meters = 29.1 millimeters or 1.14566929 inches.
2 Minute of Angle at 100 meters = 58.2 millimeters or 2.29133858 inches.
Why even discuss a 100 yard group or test at 100 yards when the litmus test for smallbore is 100 meters?
A lot can happen in that last 9 yards past the 100 yard mark.
Think of the rump of the Ram. The entire rump is less than 3 Minute of Angle because of the recess in front of the back leg.
It is like Emmett said, "Is it worth a lot more money to shoot just a 1/2 MOA tighter group?"
Charlie, 2.3 inches is 2 MOA at 100 meters.
If you can get in calm outdoor conditions for testing and find reasonably priced ammo that will group in less than a 2 inch circle, that should be acceptable for most all silhouette competitors. That 2 inch group would be less than 2 MOA. Just my opinion.
2 Minute of Angle at 100 meters = 58.2 millimeters or 2.29133858 inches.
Why even discuss a 100 yard group or test at 100 yards when the litmus test for smallbore is 100 meters?
A lot can happen in that last 9 yards past the 100 yard mark.
Think of the rump of the Ram. The entire rump is less than 3 Minute of Angle because of the recess in front of the back leg.
It is like Emmett said, "Is it worth a lot more money to shoot just a 1/2 MOA tighter group?"
Charlie, 2.3 inches is 2 MOA at 100 meters.
If you can get in calm outdoor conditions for testing and find reasonably priced ammo that will group in less than a 2 inch circle, that should be acceptable for most all silhouette competitors. That 2 inch group would be less than 2 MOA. Just my opinion.
- DavidABQ
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Re: What is considered and acceptable group?
For me the answer is easy why I use 100 yards, that is the length of our tunnel.
Still, I am only a AA shooter and something like Lapua Midas is wasted on me. SK Rifle match and perhaps Lapua Center-X is something I would use for state or National championships.
Still, now I have some measure at which to judge my ammo testing against.
Thank you.
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Re: What is considered and acceptable group?
With my expert off hand wobbliness, within a 2" circle sounds good to me, sighting in off sandbags, on a good day.
If I do better.......good for ME.
If I do better.......good for ME.
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