Does silhouette need an overhaul?

[dustinflint]

At the nationals, we had some discussion at the competitors meeting about what the NRA was doing to promote the game. After finally hearing from Greg's mouth that the NRA does nothing to promote silhouette and does not consider itself to be in the promotion business, we had more discussion afterward amongst some of the competitors. Also, the thread on this site regarding whether silhouette is dying had a ton of comments and discussion. I do not think that silhouette is dying, but I do believe that it is failing to flourish as it should. After having several conversations with several shooters both at nationals and afterward, here are my thoughts on what our sport needs:

First, more people need to know that the game exists. The game is not promoted at all right now. A "National Association of Silhouette Shooters" or something similar needs to be formed with the express purpose of promoting and educating new shooters on the game. We need for lots of people that have no idea that the game exists learn that the game exists (by "lots of people " I mean hundreds of thousands or more, not 50-100 people). It needs to be on the Internet, on shooting websites, in shooting magazines, on shooting TV shows, etc.

Before the competitor meeting at nationals, I was of the opinion that we should break away from the NRA since the NRA is doing nothing to promote the game and Greg is basically incompetent to grow the sport. I am no longer of that opinion. However, I think that the NRA should serve a limited role in silhouette. Basically, the NRA is there to put on national championship matches, keep national records, and make rules. Beyond that, the NRA and the silhouette department should not be involved further. The shooters and clubs need to handle it from there.

After forming an organization to promote the game and promoting the game to the point that lots of new folks learn about it, what do we do to keep the new shooters once they try it? Here in Louisiana, we have instituted a handicapping procedure to decide our club championship each year. The handicaps put each shooter on the same level and makes it possible for anyone to win. This idea comes from golf. Silhouette needs to follow golf's lead and institute a running handicap for all club-level matches and local tournaments. Handicaps allow clubs/ranges/state shooting associations to operate leagues and tournaments that anyone can participate in and win. Any shooter, regardless of age or ability level or shooting talent should be able to compete in and win at the club level. This would hopefully keep shooter's interests up and keep frustration/discouragement down - just as it does in golf. In golf,a hacker can compete with a scratch golfer at the local level, it should be the same in silhouette. (i think the NRA is going to need to get out of the club match business to make this happen)

Once we have the promotion of the game taken care of with an association of shooters promoting it and we are keeping shooters of all ages and ability levels interested with a handicapping system, we'll have enough shooters to get manufacturers interested in sponsoring the sport at the highest level. The more shooters we have, the more the manufacturers will sell and will throw at the big matches. The last piece of this puzzle is big time prizes at our biggest championship matches. If companies know that they can make money supporting this game, they will do it and new products will be available to us and the top shooting g talent will participate in silhouette. Sporting clays has a PRO TOUR with hundreds of thousands of dollars of prize money available. All the matches are sponsored and funded by firearms manufacturers and companies that sell equipment for the sport. If silhouette is better promoted and if we hook and keep our shooters by making everyone competitive at the local levels, there is no reason silhouette can't have the same type of following and events that sporting clays has.

Dustin

[GregG]

Dustin, you are spot on; it is the shooters responsibility to build the sport. I truly hope this works but I do see challenges ahead:

1) How will new new organization be funded?
2) What are the guidelines to where it will try to build the sport up?
3) How are you going to comvience a magazine or TV show to spot light silhouette when nationals have 100ish shooters where a local monthly IDPA match draws here about the same?

To be honest one of the things, I think the NRA has done correctly is kept the prize tables down. I have shot many of those big prize table matches. I paid the same entry fees as the top shooters (except their entry was paid by the sponsor) and they walked away with the big prize. This started the saying, I am tired of buying Rob Lahtham yet another rifle, while I received a box of foam ear plugs. So the lower entry fees and competing for the honor of winning was and is very attractive to me.


Good luck again.
Greg

[psteiger]

Yes, it would take money, but if we started it, I believe they will come. Anschutz made a line of rifles for the sport. Lapua provides ammo at matches, Leupold makes special scopes. Those people want us to be successful. But first we must help ourselves and come up with a plan.

As to a pro tour, Wayne Harlow is working on resettables. With modular SB and Air rifle resettables you could set up ANYWHERE you could get a 100yd range. This means we could bring the game to the people, not the middle of nowhere. ( remember the days of trying to find a hotel within an hour of Winnsboro?) You could have a a modular backstop and set up in a football stadium. And it would all fit in a Uhaul truck.

As a spectator sport, people could follow it. Not tiny holes in paper or splats on a screen, when the animal fell, everyone could see it. Handicapped for local stuff, heads up for the pros.

I think this could work. What are your thoughts??????

p

[cedestech]

Oddly enough, I actually have relevant insight on this and lived through it with another sport in the mid 90's... (AMA motorcycle racing). Busy today but will add my thoughts and observations this evening.... ;)

[Jerry G]

The Canadian silhouette shooters broke away from their national organazation (National shooting Sports Federation of Canada) about 20 years ago and the have made a go of it. There is no reason we couldn't do the same if we had several people that would be willing to take on the job.

It also seems to me that 'Gregg's rules' on who can host the nationls limits us to about 2 or 3 places in the US. There are many SB ranges that could have 8 bays to host the nationals in places that are easier to get to and more centrally located than NM and PA. We also need to have 'silhouette shooters' on the rules committee.

[Bob259]

It became quite obvious at the competitors meeting this year that Greg doesn't even listen to the questions being asked and then runs off on something else. I think we should work to have Greg replaced with someone younger and an advocate for Silhouette and change by modernizing the reporting tools and open to suggestions. However, even if that did happen I'm afraid that the powers to be in the NRA are more focused on Political activism then competitors anymore. Maybe we should look at a change of the governing body say from the NRA to the CMP would be a better option, seeing the CMP is more progressive in its reporting and promotion of the shooting sports they govern.

[dustinflint]

How are you going to convince a magazine or TV show to spot light silhouette when nationals have 100ish shooters where a local monthly IDPA match draws here about the same?

It also seems to me that 'Gregg's rules' on who can host the nationals limits us to about 2 or 3 places in the US. There are many SB ranges that could have 8 bays to host the nationals in places that are easier to get to and more centrally located than NM and PA.

I think that we put too much emphasis on the nationals and how many shooters attend the nationals. That is just one match per year and a lot of things go into who can and will travel to the match. This is a little bit beside the point but I'll give you my view on the nationals and how best to operate it: Right now, our national champion in each silhouette discipline is based on who is willing to travel to the nationals site and, of those folks, who shoots best over a period of 3-4 days. I think that the national championship should be based on more than that.

Here is how I would do it:

Each year, clubs around the country register their regionals in SB, HP, cowboy, air rifle, etc. Any clubs interested could put in a bid to have their regional be part of the "national championship series" for that particular year. The silhouette committee decides on 4 regionals to be part of the "national championship series" for each year. Each shooter keeps their highest two scores out of those four regionals and the highest score is the national champion. That way, shooters could choose which regionals they can or want to attend, or they can attend them all and have more bites at the apple.

For instance, lets say that in 2014 the silhouette committee awarded the smallbore "National Championship Series" to the Conard Cup in PeEll, Wa, the Lapua SuperShoot in Ridgeway, PA, the Southern Nationals in Winnsboro, LA and a regional in Raton, NM (the nationals we just had there would have to be a regional under this format and there would need to be a match format of something like 80 total shots in standard and 80 total shots in hunter). This year I attended the Conard Cup, the Southern Nationals, and the Raton match. My top two scores of those three matches would be my national championship entry. If I was not happy with my scores or if I wanted to increase my chances, I'd go to PA and attend the fourth match and get another bite at the apple. If I could only attend two of those matches, I'd have to be on my game at those two. Elisabeth Steiger attended the Southern nationals and the Raton match, those two scores would be her national championship entry. Cathy Winstead attended The PeEll match and the Raton match, those two scores would be her national championship entry.

This would solve all the problems we have with nationals: the 10-bank thing would be unnecessary; the travel required to go from the northeast to the southwest is not as big of a deal. As long as the series matches were spaced out over the country, a LOT more people would be able to participate in the National championship and a "Regional" match would actually mean something. If your club can host a Regional, it can help host the nationals; and the regional sites can be changed around every year but still spaced in such a way as to allow the maximum number of shooters from around the country to participate.

Dustin

[dustinflint]

The Canadian silhouette shooters broke away from their national organazation (National shooting Sports Federation of Canada) about 20 years ago and the have made a go of it. There is no reason we couldn't do the same if we had several people that would be willing to take on the job.

I don't think we need to break away from the NRA, we just need to limit the NRA's influence. If the NRA wants to put on a nationals for us, let it. If the NRA wants to keep up with national records, let it. If the NRA wants to create rules through the silhouette committee, let it (as long as the committee pays attention to what the shooters want.)

HOWEVER, the scorebooks are antiquated and need to go. The snail-mail club reporting forms are antiquated and need to go. We need an online database to keep up with scores and to keep up with running handicaps if that's the way we are going to do it.

I don't understand why we worry so much about the NRA when it comes to silhouette. The NRA has no power over our game - it provides a service to us but it doesn't own the sport. We as shooters need to take over the parts of the game that need to be improved (promotion, participation, etc.) and leave the rest to the NRA.

Dustin

[dustinflint]

1) How will new new organization be funded?

Good question. I don't know how much funding would be needed - the association would need a website where a scoring database could be kept. The way it works in cycling is that every racer buys a license each year for about $60 and every racer has a racer number and results and classifications are kept online. The license purchase, money from race directors, and money from industry companies fund USACycling. This National Association of Silhouette Shooters would need a fraction of that to be productive as long as it relys on volunteers from the sport to run things.

2) What are the guidelines to where it will try to build the sport up?

That is for the association to decide once it's formed, but the obvious answer to that question is the INTERNET and other MEDIA. The game needs to be visible wherever people go to look at things related to shooting: websites, YouTube, TV shows, magazines, Facebook, gun shows, trade shows, everywhere.

3) How are you going to comvience a magazine or TV show to spot light silhouette when nationals have 100ish shooters where a local monthly IDPA match draws here about the same?

You ASK THEM TO DO IT. Magazines and TV shows and websites need content - give it to them. Why do you think IDPA has 100 shooters at a club match? Because the game was PROMOTED when it only had 10 shooters at a club match and it continues to be PROMOTED now. Of course, the promotion is cumulative - once you promote and grow your numbers the game promotes itself; more people are involved and buying products so the manufacturers are making money off the game and promoting it in their literature and with specially-made products, etc. Once it takes off, the promotion starts to partially take care of itself.

To be honest one of the things, I think the NRA has done correctly is kept the prize tables down. I have shot many of those big prize table matches. I paid the same entry fees as the top shooters (except their entry was paid by the sponsor) and they walked away with the big prize. This started the saying, I am tired of buying Rob Lahtham yet another rifle, while I received a box of foam ear plugs. So the lower entry fees and competing for the honor of winning was and is very attractive to me.

The end game here is to have industry provide the prize money at the top-tier matches. Once the game gets big, the industry pushes it and throws money at it for the top-level shooters. That's why people at the top can almost make a living shooting other games - Go look at the top sporting clays matches, the prize money is not coming from entry fees, it's coming from match sponsors who have an interest in the big matches having a big following. Go look at the top tournament in golf, the prize money is paid by the companies sponsoring the tournament, not the entry fees.

Dustin

[dustinflint]

I got a PM asking about handicapping so I'll put my response here:

In Louisiana, our club championship is a year-long series of matches; every shooter is handicapped. The handicap is calculated by averaging each shooter's last 5 scores and subtracting that number from 40. The difference is added to that shooter's raw score for the day. For instance:

Shooter A's last 5 standard scores are 19,18,17,20, 21 - average of 19; 40-19=21 (Shooter A's handicap is 21 and will be added to his raw score)

Shooter B's last 5 standard scores are 35, 37, 36, 35, 37 - average of 36; 40-36=4 (Shooter B's handicap is 4 and will be added to her raw score)

Repeat for hunter

Shooter A shoots a 21 and shooter B shoots a 35; Shooter A's adjusted score is 21+21=42; Shooter B's adjusted score is 35 + 4= 39; Shooter A beats shooter B.

We've been doing this in Louisiana for almost 2 years and the results are all over the place. It's lots of fun. We keep a running total of top 10 places over the course of the year and a different person seems to win every month. If someone shows up for the first time and shoots a 6, we use that score to calculate his handicap (he gets a 34 shot handicap) and when he comes back the second time he's right in the mix shooting for the win. You don't have to have a great talent, equipment, practice time, anything to win a match or even the year-long club championship.

So how do you incorporate this into a local league? There are lots of ways - see how golf does it at the local level with small handicapped tournaments or even match play leagues. I like match play in golf and in silhouette (see the World Cup postal match) At a local level, with an excel spreadsheet and a league manager, every club or state could have an awesome silhouette league that anyone can win. It's like fantasy football:

Here is an example: match play, league plus playoffs, handicapped.

Lets say your club has 20 shooters that enter the league. Each shooter puts up $20 to enter (or $100, or $10, or $500, whatever your shooters want to do). Everyone decides how the prize money is going to be distributed at the end. Lets say you get your money back if you make the playoffs and the champions gets whatever is left.

The 20 shooters are randomly divided into 4 divisions, 5 shooters in each division. The regular season is March - July and you have to go head-to-head (handicapped) with each shooter in your division once during the regular season. It is up to each shooter in the division to schedule a head-to-head with each other shooter in his division.

The league manager keeps up with everyone' s running handicap on an excel spreadsheet (it's easy, I do it here for our shooters). The shooters give the head-to-head result to the league manager, who applies the handicap and gives each shooter a win, loss or draw.

After July, when every shooter plays every other shooter in their division once, the playoffs start and the top two shooters from each division make the playoffs. You then have 8 shooters in the playoffs to play it off tournament-style in August, September and October to determine the champion. ANYONE can win. it's a complete crapshoot and it's lots of fun. It keeps shooters coming to the matches; it keeps interest; everyone is in the hunt.

That is just one example of how the handicapping system works with a club-level league. There are tons of ways to do it.

Dustin

[Jim T.]

I don't understand the need for a handicap system when we have a classification system. If silhouette shooting is a "game" of precision shooting requiring discipline, practice and dedication then we need to follow the path of the other precision shooting sports and provide the incentives for shooters to strive to improve not "dumb down" the game so an A shooter wins an overall match.

It seems to me there are a lot of interim steps that should be explored before we go all in with a restructuring of the silhouette shooting sport. For instance has anyone had a face to face meeting with Greg Connor's boss about what that person is willing to do to strengthen the sport in partnership with the NRA. Keep in mind Connor might not want to upset the status quo since he might not want to work that hard?

Why couldn't we have a score reporting system located on this site along with match reports and pictures or better yet videos from said matches. I think a media and information rich website would go a long way to enlightening the general public about our sport.

I just don't see the TV and print media giving the silhouette shooting sports the comprehensive and continual coverage that would be necessary to meaningfully have a chance of attracting large numbers of new shooters. That is, a magazine article or TV segment here or there is not going to do the trick.

From my perspective, I think it would be a lot more productive to study individual success stories concerning effective shooter recruitment (an retaining) of new shooters at the local level before heretofore untested or proven ineffective methods are deployed. For instance, Dave Bonner has done an amazing job of attracting shooters here in Colorado and his methods might work for other venues.

[twidpa]

This is a good discussion. On the topic of introducing other shooters to the sport, our club host the Boy Scouts several times a year. Rather than setting up paper to make lots of holes, we set up every animal we own on the rails and let them have at it. Almost always leads to a discussion with parents on how can they do this more often! The SBCLA requires only a box of ammo for you to get started at our club (my rifle and ammo to start). We will have to build this sport up one kid and parent at a time. In my 20 plus years of competition shooting experience I can tell you that we need to get women and kids involved to make the sport grow.
T

[malinois]

All good ideas....I think we were able to get more people at the Nationals when it was held all over the country..It has gone stale since the NRA only runs it in two locations...you are only going to get the same bunch show up for the most part, the locals and a few from the closer states your average guy might not be able to travel to those locations or have the finances to cover it.

[Innocent]

In my 20 plus years of competition shooting experience I can tell you that we need to get women and kids involved to make the sport grow.

Amen to that.
Mary

[DavidABQ]

I just think we need a change in leadership within the Silhouette Division at the NRA.