Classification Update

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Tlee
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Re: Classification Update

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OldRanger wrote:
Jerry G wrote:I would like to know how many silhouette shooters are on that committee. I have been wondering that for years.
I met one committee member at nationals last year. Laura Goetsch I think. Sorry if I butchered your name Laura. I got the impression she was the only committee member in attendance. She was very knowledgeable and helpful. Maybe you can ask her about the rest of the committee members.
According to the silhouette committee member I spoke with, ALL the members of the committee WERE in attendance EXCEPT for one... He didn't state who the one absent member was, but most of the committee were in attendance.

-Tim
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Re: Classification Update

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BCloninger wrote:One change that might help is changing the rules to allow AR's to compete. Every generation of shooters has a lot of veterans, and they want to shoot what they're accustomed to. This cohort appreciates cerakote and forged aluminum much more than blued steel and walnut.

Changing classifications is fine, but without some adaptation we're just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
:-bd Good idea in principle, and the popular 22LR based AR platforms might be a good place to start.

However I've seen firsthand the damage that any factory AR round will cause to the typical Hunters Pistol/Cowboy Rifle halfscale targets.... Would be cost prohibitive to come up with targets that wouldn't be damaged, IMO. Plus most clubs I'm aware of now restrict AR/AK or other high power Centerfire Rifle calibers on metallic targets to distances of 100yards or more due to frag/bounce back concerns. I've personally caught a fragment in the leg from a 1700fps 50g jacketed projectile shot at a swinger 50 meters away, so I know the concern is warranted.

-Tim

Edited to include other centerfire rifle calibers...
Last edited by Tlee on Mon May 04, 2015 11:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Classification Update

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Tlee wrote: :-bd Good idea in principle, and the popular 22LR based AR platforms might be a good place to start.

However I've seen firsthand the damage that any factory AR round will cause to the typical Hunters Pistol/Cowboy Rifle halfscale targets.... Would be cost prohibitive to come up with targets that wouldn't be damaged, IMO. Plus most clubs I'm aware of now restrict AR and AK Centerfire calibers on metallic targets to distances of 100yards or more due to frag/bounce back concerns. I've personally caught a jacket fragment in the leg from a 1700fps 50g jacketed projectile shot at a swinger 50 meters away, so the concern is warranted.

-Tim
Absolutely right! The .223/5.56 is a no go, so I think existing rules on caliber need to stay. High power requires a minimum of 6mm and Smallbore is limited to 22lr. Folks that think shooting is all about blazing away with military surplus 5.56 probably aren't our demographic anyway, but I know my sons are eyeing AR10's in .243 or .260 for hunting, so there are probably others.
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Re: Classification Update

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Jerry G wrote:I would like to know how many silhouette shooters are on that committee. I have been wondering that for years.
All of the non-staff committee members are silhouette shooters.
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Re: Classification Update

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ICYMI... From page 1 of the Silhouette National Match Program:

Dr. David E.Bennett III - Chairman
Bill Miller - Vice Chairman
Gregory Connor - Secretary
Aubrey Adcock
Kirk Bryan
Rob Drummond
Laura Goetsch
Wayne Harlow
Lee 0'Neil
Joe Scott
Hal Simpkins
Hugh Wilson
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Re: Classification Update

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We can allow the .22LR versions of the AR platform and call it, "Tactical Silhoutte." Everyone seems to market stuff as tactical and are successful.
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Re: Classification Update

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I think it would be fun to have a "tactical silhouette" match in parallel with smallbore cowboy silhouette on the same targets and require iron sights. I'd drag out my S&W 15-22. Now that I have the idea in my head, we might do this once we get our matches at our club going again in July. I'll start a separate thread for this in the smallbore silhouette forum so we don't get this one off track.
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Re: Classification Update

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BCloninger wrote:One change that might help is changing the rules to allow AR's to compete. Every generation of shooters has a lot of veterans, and they want to shoot what they're accustomed to. This cohort appreciates cerakote and forged aluminum much more than blued steel and walnut.

Changing classifications is fine, but without some adaptation we're just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
I've always thought that half sized targets at half the distance with 223 AR-15's might be a real winner, alot more clubs have 300yard ranges than 500m ranges. And maybe it's just where I live but it seems like everyone has a AR in their collection.
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Re: Classification Update

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kevinbear wrote:
BCloninger wrote:One change that might help is changing the rules to allow AR's to compete. Every generation of shooters has a lot of veterans, and they want to shoot what they're accustomed to. This cohort appreciates cerakote and forged aluminum much more than blued steel and walnut.

Changing classifications is fine, but without some adaptation we're just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
I've always thought that half sized targets at half the distance with 223 AR-15's might be a real winner, alot more clubs have 300yard ranges than 500m ranges. And maybe it's just where I live but it seems like everyone has a AR in their collection.
The targets would still have to be AR plate and not mild steel.... Last year at Raton during either the SmallBore or high power match someone decided to try out their AR with some cheap factory 55gr FMJBTs on the Hunters Pistol/Cowboy Rifle ram line. Half dozen targets suffered excessive damage. The shooter was asked to leave the premises. I'll try to find the pics I took of the resulting damage.

Meanwhile, this link is typical of the damage seen:
http://www.223targets.com/223_steel_targets_s/62.htm

- Tim
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Re: Classification Update

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Tlee wrote:
kevinbear wrote:
BCloninger wrote:One change that might help is changing the rules to allow AR's to compete. Every generation of shooters has a lot of veterans, and they want to shoot what they're accustomed to. This cohort appreciates cerakote and forged aluminum much more than blued steel and walnut.

Changing classifications is fine, but without some adaptation we're just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
I've always thought that half sized targets at half the distance with 223 AR-15's might be a real winner, alot more clubs have 300yard ranges than 500m ranges. And maybe it's just where I live but it seems like everyone has a AR in their collection.
The targets would still have to be AR plate and not mild steel.... Last year at Raton during either the SmallBore or high power match someone decided to try out their AR with some cheap factory 55gr FMJBTs on the Hunters Pistol/Cowboy Rifle ram line. Half dozen targets suffered excessive damage. The shooter was asked to leave the premises. I'll try to find the pics I took of the resulting damage.

Meanwhile, this link is typical of the damage seen:
http://www.223targets.com/223_steel_targets_s/62.htm

- Tim
I have a set of 5 targets from Quality target that are completely impervious to fmj 223 rounds at 100m, also have a half size chicken swinger that's AR500, been shooting it for over a year and it's getting beat up but I think yahoo's been shooting it with bigger calibers when I'm not around.
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Re: Classification Update

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Tlee, I just noticed your from San Antonio?, where Bob Wills is still the king.

My favorite tribute to the king, and people say I don't like country music!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjn5Q52Y1Ck
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Re: Classification Update

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Kevin,

I can old speak for what I have seen in Texas. I do believe you that AR500 steel stands up to 223 and 308. However at the last club I ran high power silhouette all the targets were mild steel. 223 just tore them up in a test.

After many year of 308, 7-08, etc most chickens had holes in them.

The club we shot at was just south the Houston and Houston has about 6.18 millon here and we could not get 6 high-power shooters of any type. I am probably the only one (or of few) that has a military classification, yes, I shot my M1 garand. But to approach a club and ask for the money to purchase new targets for less than six shooters is just not going to happen. I wish it would, I love shooting high-power.... There is nothing like watch a ram fall at 500 meters.

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Re: Classification Update

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kevinbear wrote:Tlee, I just noticed your from San Antonio?, where Bob Wills is still the king.

My favorite tribute to the king, and people say I don't like country music!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjn5Q52Y1Ck
Although he sings of the San Antonio Rose... It don't matter who's in Austin where Bob Wills is still the King

I'm from Austin,

- Tim
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Re: Classification Update

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Tlee wrote:
kevinbear wrote:Tlee, I just noticed your from San Antonio?, where Bob Wills is still the king.

My favorite tribute to the king, and people say I don't like country music!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjn5Q52Y1Ck
Although he sings of the San Antonio Rose... It don't matter who's in Austin where Bob Wills is still the King

I'm from Austin,

- Tim
I don't know much about Bob Wills, I always thought is was a reference to the capitol and the governor, Austin is country music hot spot of Texas? Hence the television show Austin city limits.
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Re: Classification Update

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kevinbear wrote: I don't know much about Bob Wills, I always thought is was a reference to the capitol and the governor, Austin is country music hot spot of Texas? Hence the television show Austin city limits.
Nope, it's a reference to the originator of music known as Western Swing... Mix of Country, Blues, Jazz, and Swing band music, most commonly heard in dance halls in Texas and Oklahoma starting decades ago. Still popular today. Most of the pre-Pop Country music folk have covered it if they've ever played in those venues. It's common for Bob's music to still show up frequently on album cuts by pretty big names, country or not.

There's lots of Bob Wills tribute bands, but arguably the best current cover of it is Ray Benson's Grammy winning Asleep At The Wheel, a local Austin band.... http://asleepatthewheel.com/the-band/history/

Austin, (while popular as the home of Willie, Janis, and Stevie Ray) is a hotspot for pretty much any form of music and is promoted as "The Live Music Capitol of the World"

"Stay all night (stay a little longer)",

- Tim :ymcowboy:
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