Big Changes

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Jerry G
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Re: Big Changes

Post by Jerry G »

The book system worked just fine so let's change it.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Sporty
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Re: Big Changes

Post by Sporty »

Please see the attached NRA letter.

It appears from the verbiage in chapter 3, match directors make copies of the 2018 score books for each competitor because the NRA needs them to input classification history. The process needs to be defined.
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Last edited by Sporty on Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-Charlie (Lee) Meli
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Re: Big Changes

Post by Sporty »

jbolt wrote: Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:53 am Has anyone received books for 2019 yet? In the past we usually didn't get them until the second or third week in January except for last year where we got them just after Christmas.

Has anyone received any hard documents from the NRA for next year? I usually have the tournament sheets, jury cards etc. by now. The two other match directors I know in my area have not received anything yet either.

I'm still waiting for a response to the claimed missing books we never got.
Last October, I received approval documentation including the Jury Cards but no score books.
-Charlie (Lee) Meli
Retired match director @ Piedmont Gun Club, Rutherdfordton, NC
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jbolt
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Re: Big Changes

Post by jbolt »

Sporty wrote: Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:43 am Please see the attached NRA letter
Gotta love that timely communication from the NRA.

"I wanted to address the changes that are happening for 2019 in Silhouette" . I guess that answers the question of "When".

and there is this,

"I feel this will bring on a change that helps keep everyone honest and makes for an easier
tracking of your classifications, as well as, save you time on your submissions."

Do we have a current systemic problem with honesty in our sport?

Being as we currently do not report our approved match scores to the NRA I'm not sure how this is this saving time?

Anyway I hold reservation until we see how it is implemented or what the costs will be.
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Re: Big Changes

Post by psteiger »

Oh goody, I get to start over in B.......I lost my book..... =))


yakyakayakyak :D
cedestech
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Re: Big Changes

Post by cedestech »

Image

Yep, waiting in the mail for me when I got home… I’ll hope for the best, and if it’s the worst I’ll remind you… I called it.
Emmett Dibble, Houston, Texas. Where's my buddy Jason? Keeper of electronic records and banisher of little pieces of paper?
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Re: Big Changes

Post by hermit5 »

How about a copy of that good news document so we can all know what’s going on.
No rumors,theory’s,or speculation.
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Re: Big Changes

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hermit5 wrote: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:39 pm How about a copy of that good news document so we can all know what’s going on.
No rumors,theory’s,or speculation.
Already done!
http://www.steelchickens.com/forums/vie ... 346#p98341
-Charlie (Lee) Meli
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Re: Big Changes

Post by Sporty »

It seems, the paper work will likely be delegated to the competitor as they fill out the signed report card with their name, address & NRA number before the match as they do with the score cards. The match director will still need to add the scores and mail/send it in.
-Charlie (Lee) Meli
Retired match director @ Piedmont Gun Club, Rutherdfordton, NC
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Re: Big Changes

Post by cedestech »

Sporty wrote: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:46 pm It seems, the paper work will likely be delegated to the competitor as they fill out the signed report card with their name, address & NRA number before the match as they do with the score cards. The match director will still need to add the scores and mail/send it in.
But competitors aren’t required to be NRA members....
Emmett Dibble, Houston, Texas. Where's my buddy Jason? Keeper of electronic records and banisher of little pieces of paper?
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Re: Big Changes

Post by Sporty »

I should have said if they have a membership number. If they don't, subsequent to the previous match, (prepare for redundancy) a classification card will be mailed to them with a number to use in subsequent matches. (superfluous)
-Charlie (Lee) Meli
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Re: Big Changes

Post by dustinflint »

Getting rid of the books while making it easy on the match directors seems easy to me:

Step 1: Create a database at the NRA with each shooter's current classification and the number of scores he/she has in the next classification. (they apparently already have this)

Step 2: Require every shooter to go online and purchase an annual silhouette license. You must have a license to shoot an approved or registered match. (the first time you buy a license, on the online application, you have to report your classification in each discipline and how many scores you have toward the higher classification to populate the database)

Step 3: The NRA mails the license to the shooter, which is a card that has the shooter's name, ID #, and current classification for each silhouette discipline. It also has 3 spots/blanks/punchouts, etc. to mark when a shooter shoots a score above the class or breaks out.

Step 4: Each shooter turns in his license to the MD at the match like we do books now. If the shooter shoots a score toward the next class (or breaks out), the MD marks the license some way. The MD is also responsible to report that score (only) to the NRA to be entered into the database. Any score that does not serve to move a shooter into the higher class is not required to be entered into a book or reported by the MD.

Step 5: When a shooter moves into a higher class, another license is printed by the NRA and mailed to the shooter.

Next year, everyone buys a new license and the info is already in the database. The license should probably cost $10-$20. No one has to do anything unless someone shoots a score that either reclassifies the shooter or moves the shooter closer to the next classification. Easy.

Dustin
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Jason
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Re: Big Changes

Post by Jason »

I very much do not want the NRA to continue to use the "buy a book" method of charging an annual fee with the new system. Half of our shooters don't shoot for official scores because they would have to pay an extra $13 to the NRA to do it. We only charge $10 to shoot a match, so the cost of the book is more than the cost of the match. Having the non-official scores means that the shooters can't compete for class of match wins, so they don't really feel fully engaged in the match. This will hopefully be a very welcome benefit of getting rid of the books.
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Re: Big Changes

Post by cedestech »

Jason wrote: Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:59 pm I very much do not want the NRA to continue to use the "buy a book" method of charging an annual fee with the new system. Half of our shooters don't shoot for official scores because they would have to pay an extra $13 to the NRA to do it. We only charge $10 to shoot a match, so the cost of the book is more than the cost of the match. Having the non-official scores means that the shooters can't compete for class of match wins, so they don't really feel fully engaged in the match. This will hopefully be a very welcome benefit of getting rid of the books.
Do tell.... what is the cutoff that would prohibit your match participants from participating? They won't spend $13 for 1 book that will cover them for all silhouette classes they want to shoot. Why would they pay for a NRA silhouette license? I assume YOU assume it'll be less then $13. What if it's $10. Would that be a reasonable price for them to purchase a NRA license? $5? $2? What if you have to purchase a different rating card (effectively what this will be) for every class, I shoot everything except pistol but I have shot pistol and still have books showing my rating.

I'm betting your shooters who are so financially incapable of purchasing that $13 book are going to balk at paying for a rating card and you will still have them shooting with out purchasing anything from the NRA which means you haven't changed anything... except getting rid of those dang pesky books....

(yet another slow clap can be inserted right about here....)
Emmett Dibble, Houston, Texas. Where's my buddy Jason? Keeper of electronic records and banisher of little pieces of paper?
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Jason
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Re: Big Changes

Post by Jason »

Please reread my comment that you quoted. I want the NRA to not have an annual silhouette license with an annual fee. That was the whole point of my post and I'm not sure how I could have made that any clearer above. The annual fee, whether it comes with a book or not, is the blocker for them.

You are thinking of this as a silhouette enthusiast who may shoot many matches over the course of a year, and you probably start shooting those matches as early in the year as they occur. New shooters are not yet silhouette enthusiasts, and they may try their first match late in the calendar year. Most of our shooters only shoot smallbore/smallbore hunter or smallbore cowboy/PC lever. We have very few who shoot both. Those are the only NRA-approved silhouette matches that our range hosts. Most don't shoot at other ranges.

I am not assuming anything. I am stating exactly what the shooters at my matches have told me. It's not that they are financially incapable of paying the $13 book fee, so please keep your condescending tone out of this. They choose not to pay the cost of the book. They would likely also not pay an annual license fee of $10 or more until they decide they really like silhouette. They have stated that they would pay an extra dollar or two per match, like they do with some other competitive shooting events. It doesn't matter if a $13 book is cheaper over 20 matches than $1 per match if they aren't even sure if they'll shoot more silhouette matches.
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