Does silhouette need an overhaul?

[GregG]

Rick, Mark,

Sorry but I think both of you are extremely wrong. The NRA does care about it shooting sports. It is one of the legs used to show why we should have firearms. I did not say they are doing this part well but it is important to lobbying efforts to have this leg. Self protection, hunting and sport shooting.

As was pointed out this topic starts up ever so often. The silhouette group and many others automatically blame the NRA for what is perceived as issues with Silhouette. We are the NRA so we are to blame. The NRA is a sanctioning body it is the shooters and the local club that are responsible for the growth or decline of the sport.

Things change popular shooting sports of the past die out. Our range hard 50-60 small bore shooting points, the match has been dormant now for 10+ years (used to have 100+ at each monthly match), bullseye is hanging on with 8-12 shooters (same here 100+, and NRA pistol silhouette 3-4.

Yup lets blame the NRA, sorry tired of that song, it is our responsibility. Does the NRA need to modernize, yes. Is Greg Conner unpopular yes. But at the end of the day we need to look in the mirror.

Greg

[teetertotter]

I am at a loss at our club with over 900 members with 200 new members the past 2 years. We have one of the finest ranges in the Midwest covering numerous disciplines. The most popular is Trap. Then the pistol group. Anyway, 2 clubs and ours are within and hours drive of each other. Five years ago they stopped having NRA sanctioned matches. One of the clubs has 25 Silhouette shooters, pay $5.00 to shoot each week, scores are kept, with awards over a banquet dinner at their club end of season. That club and ours are the only clubs in our state that have a SB Silhouette range. The club in IL., just over our WI. border, shoots SB Silhouette and I don't know how many SB Silhouette shooter they have. There is one shooter from that club that comes to our once a month summer Saturday Tournaments and our state Championship. He is a AAA shooter. In short, when the Match Directors at both clubs quit having NRA sanctioned tournaments five years ago, there was no one that wanted to step in to continue the NRA program. To much work???

Our club has 7 SB Silhouette shooters from a club of 900+ members. In 2013, we had 4 new shooters that attended our weekly matches with 2 of them buying a classification book. 2014, none of them returned. Too hard?? Ammo shortage?? I advertise on our club website with a separate Silhouette page too and invite anyone with a .22 rifle to come join us....... in our quarterly club news letter the past 5 years. Five years ago, being new to the sport, I took over the responsibilities as our director was moving.
Then another fellow volunteered as our assistant. The previous assistant had been doing it for some years and is still active with the help.

Anyway, we will continue to keep our NRA sanctioned matches alive with only 7 shooters. There are 2 other participants outside our club, that come join us on our once a month Saturday summer NRA Tournaments. My reply for what it's worth.

Oh, yes, we changed our once month Saturday tournaments to the 3rd Saturday of the month. This eliminates a conflict with one of the clubs that shoots for fun, to come see what we do and how nice a facility we have. Who knows........

The Beloit Rifle Club keeping NRA Tournaments alive in Wisconsin.

[DavidABQ]

I had an idea to increase the popularity of Silhouette. We create SPEED SILHOUETTE! Look at what is popular now; three gun and the other type of run and gun type of competitions. We create a run and gun type of silhouette game where we come up with an aggregate score based on the number of targets hit in the shortest period of time as you run from animal position to the next animal position. First we start with .22s to grab the attention of the 10/22 crowd and then used reduced weight targets for the AR-15 crowd!

[Another Dang 9]

I also had this same problem but with only 300 club members. Most want to shoot center fire rifles not "little kids guns"(their words not mine). Yet you can't get them to bring their kids to the club to shoot?!? Not sure what the answer is but ya have to keep trying. Run and gun is popular so that may be worth exploring. But then the really out of shape folks(me) will not want to play.

[OldRanger]

Maybe you don't have to actually run. Just set the targets up like they are in Missoula where you can shoot all 40 from one spot. Then shoot for time and hits. When my buddy and I get bored we time how long it takes us to hit all 40 (number of shots is irrelevant). Using only 5 shot bolt guns. I'm sure some configuration of this could be dreamed up.

[Bob259]

A lot of discussion here on the NRA and it most cases I agree. However, over on the Smallbore Accuracy Yahoo group site Dennis has been personally responding on the "Taps for Smallbore at Camp Perry" discussion. How long has it been that we've seen that kind of engagement, I think Dustin would have to agree with his dealings with Dennis and setting up the Air Rifle Silhouette Nationals that while Dennis has budgets and internal NRA politics to deal with he seems to support the competitors if they bring him facts and not an emotional bitch.

I believe our biggest problem/obstacle right now for Silhouette is the Silhouette department leadership itself and not the NRA as a whole. That said, we do not have first hand knowledge of what Greg has been dictated to do so if we don't get the answer we want I think running it up to Dennis in a clear fact type letter without the personal emotion is what we have to do.

[DavidABQ]

Maybe you don't have to actually run. Just set the targets up like they are in Missoula where you can shoot all 40 from one spot. Then shoot for time and hits. When my buddy and I get bored we time how long it takes us to hit all 40 (number of shots is irrelevant). Using only 5 shot bolt guns. I'm sure some configuration of this could be dreamed up.

Maybe not run but perhaps a brisk walk from station to station?

Maybe I should copy write the name Speed Silhouette!



I really hope no one takes me very seriously!

[dustinflint]

A lot of discussion here on the NRA and it most cases I agree. However, over on the Smallbore Accuracy Yahoo group site Dennis has been personally responding on the "Taps for Smallbore at Camp Perry" discussion. How long has it been that we've seen that kind of engagement, I think Dustin would have to agree with his dealings with Dennis and setting up the Air Rifle Silhouette Nationals that while Dennis has budgets and internal NRA politics to deal with he seems to support the competitors if they bring him facts and not an emotional bitch.

I believe our biggest problem/obstacle right now for Silhouette is the Silhouette department leadership itself and not the NRA as a whole. That said, we do not have first hand knowledge of what Greg has been dictated to do so if we don't get the answer we want I think running it up to Dennis in a clear fact type letter without the personal emotion is what we have to do.

I like Dennis a lot. I think he's a stand-up guy and very practical. I believe that the key to growing the game is to get manufacturers into promotion of big matches and shooters at the local levels putting on and promoting club matches. Keep it fun.

Dustin

[cedestech]

I had an idea to increase the popularity of Silhouette. We create SPEED SILHOUETE

Funny you should call it that. We have a guy who runs a "fun shoot" at BRI, his game is called Zombie Silhouette. He has a random draw for 4 person teams, any sight, rifle, number of shots per animal and the team with the fastest time wins. No money, no regular teams. He has to limit the number of shooters to 42 per match.....

[DavidABQ]

I had an idea to increase the popularity of Silhouette. We create SPEED SILHOUETE

Funny you should call it that. We have a guy who runs a "fun shoot" at BRI, his game is called Zombie Silhouette. He has a random draw for 4 person teams, any sight, rifle, number of shots per animal and the team with the fastest time wins. No money, no regular teams. He has to limit the number of shooters to 42 per match.....

I was really just screwing around with the whole

Speed Silhouette thing. I just imagined a silhouette match invaded by the AR and 10/22 crowd.

[Dave W]

I just started shooting again after a long layoff, 15 years. I joined a local club here in south Florida. They have a sanctioned NRA match every other month, and a any gun/sight oversized targets match is run along side. NRA draws a couple shooters to a dozen shooting the "easy" match. On the other months they have a Cowboy Speed match. Oversize targets, chickens & pigs at 25 yds and turkeys & rams at 50 yards - 10 shots in 30 seconds. Groups broken down to lever - irons - scope. This match draws about 20 shooters, a half dozen levers, a couple bolts and the rest 10/22s various sights. You can see what gets attended. Unless regulation silhouette is your meat the average shooter heads toward the "easy" match. The "easy matches" draw the shooters and the more competitive gravitate to the "real" silhouette, but not too many. Instead of B & A with many scoring 10-15/40 maybe an easier setup where they can score 25-35/40. I know an extra course/target set is more work, but many clubs have the oversize pistol targets already. Just a thought for keeping new shooters coming back. Even though our club calls shooters with scopes shooting the oversize targets the "princess class" complete with a pink tiara, it drew three times as many shooters as the NRA did. Nobody likes to shoot 10/40 at the end of the day. I was a AAA shooter in the 90's and struggled to shoot an A score last weekend, very humbling this game of ours. Dave

[Another Dang 9]

In NH they would put 5 turkeys on the ram line and have a speed shoot. Two shooters fire. First one to drop them wins. Winner then advances to the second round. Even if you didn't win it was fun just to burn up some ammo.

[Sosalty]

Yes, overhaul, but don't throw out the baby(NRA) with the bath water.
(Dustin, you delinated your club's handicap system from using it at regional level matches clearly. It holds promise if it can be implemented seamlessly with 'online' reporting. IMO)

My thoughts are:
1) action is intense, yet slow, Zen level of concentration required every shot; not much 'hook' for beginners; appeal to "family" to greater extent,
2) feedback and club/match info sorely needs updating with 'online' posting of local results and an equipment list at least for national match.

1. Fast/tactical sports are growing. Several quality suggestions have been made; ex: larger targets, speed shoots, letting kidos shoot with front rest, ect. . . Cavern Cove (easy to internet search this event) east of Huntsville, has roughly 40 shooters monthly for their 22 speed steel shoot, 75 for their once a yr state shoot. It's family friendly. At Magic City, north of Birmingham AL, SB silouette matches died while 22 fun shoots lived in 2014. I've seen shooters bring their kids and leave 'em to play in the parking area or with electronic games sitting in the truck. What a missed opportunity! The 12-14? yr.olds could fun compete alongside Mom or Dad using a front rest or at least have larger targets. When they beat Mom and Dad they could get a pin as well as a promotion to shoot 'off hand.' Surely, clubs can come up with experienced members to guide still maturing 'youngsters' until they are safe with Mom/Dad or solo, we'd be so much more family. It can happen without 'dumbing down' the core of our sport.
http://www.caverncoverimfire.com/about/default.html
Short fun brisk shoots before the match, in between 40 rounds, or for a shoot off, would be a fun pep up as the concentration required by silouette can be exhastive, (not often appealing to teenagers.) There's a difference 'tween 100m(=109yd) and 100yds. Some local matches may benefit going to yds.

2. Not much excuse for not scoring online except buerocratic inflexibility. Once online, a club saves precious volunteer labor. Couldn't some major club just go ahead and do it, then pass their expertise on to rest? Seems that happened with IDPA. The folks putting together IDPA scoring seemed to be looking for other sports to build scoring apps for. If you tether a baby elephant's ankle, then as an adult, the elephant won't know they can just pull it up and go wherever they want. Is that the place that SB silouette is at (Who has the largest SB club in the US?)

I'm in a gradual process of moving from the West to Alabamie and researched what shooting sports are available. Guess which sport is hardest to find info on -- give up -- SB and air rifle silouette. Whether action pistol or 3 gun, one just needs to type in search words; IDPA match results near city and whal-la, you can find info, not so much with silouette, local match results are rare. I hope to find how many shooters there are. I drove 1hr 15min to Magic City, AL to find 1 guy sitting in his truck with fishing boat in tow ready to bug out. In L.A., no one showed till 9:15 for a match sceduled for 9:00.

NRA has a representative that uses foul language speaking to shooting groups? Many folks hold traditional values within our sport. Don't know the circumstances, but that dampens my enthusiasm to want to shoot at an NRA National (not that I'm at that point yet). In general, I'm very pro-NRA in the political arena.

There's my overhaul 2 cents. The auditory clink and viewing a target spinning back is a big plus and some of us just love knowing how and getting to shoot. It's a solid sport with history and tradition, but to grow I think we need to modernize while retaining our character.

[Cimarron Red]

I shoot BPCR and lever action silhouettes, and I, too, have been disappointed with the NRA, especially Greg Connor. And it's true that the NRA does nothing to promote silhouette shooting (the black powder target guys believe the NRA wants their discipline to wither on the vine.) But here's a link to the NRA's mission statement:

http://www.guidestar.org/organizations/ ... px#mission

Item number 4 of 5 states:

4. To foster and promote the shooting sports, including the advancement of amateur competitions in marksmanship at the local, state, regional, national, and international levels;


So it would appear that the organization does have an obligation to promote the shooting sports. I'd like to see some of that promotion.

The shooters who participate in .22 BPCR matches decided recently to form their own organization rather than allow the NRA any involvement with their game. BTW this game has nothing to do with black powder, except that it is a down-sized version of Black Powder Cartridge Silhouettes using .22 LR ammo. Here is their web site:

http://www.22bpcra.org/index.html

[GregG]

[quote="Cimarron Red"]I shoot BPCR and lever action silhouettes, and I, too, have been disappointed with the NRA, especially Greg Connor. And it's true that the NRA does nothing to promote silhouette shooting .../quote]


This thread is amazing to me..... Everyone griping about the NRA not support Silhouette. It seems to me IMHO we have a bunch a whiny democrats that are expecting the government (i.e. NRA) to make us happy. The only one on this board that has tried to do anything about improving the sport is Dustin.

So my questions to all:

1) What can the NRA do to promote the sport? (Do not say promote it). What specifically?
2) What have you done to promote you local attendance?

I think the NRA's job is to be the sanctioning body, hold national events, and hold records. Some of they do well; some they do terrible.

I think we need to get off the blame the NRA and blame ourselves. It is just too easy to say it is someone else's problem or cause.