Silhouette "feet"

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No1_49er
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Silhouette "feet"

Post by No1_49er »

Definitive information, please.

The NRA rulebook refers to silhouette sizing as follows: -
• 4.1 Targets for NRA sanctioned Silhouette competition shall be of the size and shape established by the scale drawings in the NRA Silhouette Handbook or as scaled to alternate distances in accordance with Rule 6.4.1 and Rule 17.5.

I have downloaded a copy of the NRA Silhouette Handbook that some kind soul posted on this forum.
However, it appears to be a very old document that is in fact a scan of an original, which has resulted in poor reproduction.
Has a new version ever been produced/published? If so, is there a web link to it?

Both the Handbook and the current (Revised January 2020, #NRACS-06) Rifle Silhouette Rules state that for smallbore (1/5th scale) targets, 'On the one-fifth scale targets used in Smallbore Rifle all feet should be 1 inch wide by 2 inches long'. I use smallbore as an example; the same query applies to all variations of scale.
Nowhere is it stated whereabouts the leg/s should be welded to the foot. Whilst it may seem obvious (assumptions can be a dangerous thing) the two-legged animals might be placed at the centre of each of the feet.
But, what about the feathered animals. Centre, or rear edge?

Rules are usually proscriptive with no "wriggle-room" for (mis)interpretation, but the door seems to be wide open here.

Many thanks, to anybody who can post a definitive, documented answer.
Else, we are free to do as we think best?

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dwostler
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Re: Silhouette "feet"

Post by dwostler »

Welding them along the back or front edge, will probably make them unstable and probably fall over with just the slightest wind.

My guess.

Dennis
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Re: Silhouette "feet"

Post by No1_49er »

dwostler wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:42 pm Welding them along the back or front edge, will probably make them unstable and probably fall over with just the slightest wind.

My guess.

Dennis
Well done young man.
You gain maximum points and go to the top of the class, for exploiting the wriggle-room that you identified in my query.
However, what if I actually meant something else?
By using the words "centre or rear edge", I meant with respect to the animal body, that is to say the animal stands on the end of the foot w.r.t. the shooter, and the tail overhangs outside of the foot.
Not the front or back edge on the foot with respect to the shooter.
Rather than words, a picture can be worth a thousand words.
This image may give a clue https://external-content.duckduckgo.com ... f=1&nofb=1 which places the centre of body mass closer to the centre of the foot for the chicken and turkey.
After trawling through countless images in web searches, there does not seem to be much consistency w.r.t. foot placement, and much less so with the feathered animals.
Begging the question: Is there a rule, anywhere, regarding placement?
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Re: Silhouette "feet"

Post by dustinflint »

We always ask the targets and let them decide what’s most comfortable for them.

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Re: Silhouette "feet"

Post by acorneau »

No1_49er wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:02 pm ... Has a new version ever been produced/published? If so, is there a web link to it?
As far as I know, there is not a newer version available to us common folk.

Nowhere is it stated whereabouts the leg/s should be welded to the foot. Whilst it may seem obvious (assumptions can be a dangerous thing) the two-legged animals might be placed at the centre of each of the feet.
But, what about the feathered animals. Centre, or rear edge?

Rules are usually proscriptive with no "wriggle-room" for (mis)interpretation, but the door seems to be wide open here.

Many thanks, to anybody who can post a definitive, documented answer.
Else, we are free to do as we think best?
I will not claim to provide the "definitive" answer, but I believe the practical answer is "whatever works" because it really doesn't matter. The foot of a welded target* should not be big enough for its position relative to the rest of the animal to be of any consequence.

*Cast targets, like the kind many of us use, have a much larger foot profile than welded ones. Their sizing is predetermined by the fact that only one (?) company makes them and they are "certified by the NRA".
Last edited by acorneau on Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Silhouette "feet"

Post by No1_49er »

In the absence of any new posts to this discussion, it would seem that there isn't any rule prescribing the position of animal on its "foot".
We have freedom / wriggle-room? Surprising!

With regard to the other part of my query that refers to the 'NRA Silhouette Handbook', does anybody know if a new version has been issued? Member of this forum 'Snake' posted a link http://www.steelchickens.com/forums/dow ... hp?id=4925 back in April of 2020 which he said was the document that the NRA had just sent to him. Having looked at that document I am of the opinion that whichever department is/was responsible for it should be ashamed of its quality (lack of) and legibility (lack of). Does that link really take one to the most recent version or are we blessed by having a new one available?
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Re: Silhouette "feet"

Post by dwostler »

I would assume, if you are concerned about the placement left and right, you would need to calculate the center of mass and place the foot accordingly.

Please see photo:

Dennis
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Re: Silhouette "feet"

Post by thauglor »

You are way over thinking this.

Yes you can weld them so the breeze from a miss knocks them over. But also good luck getting a match done because the wind will keep delaying your match as targets keep falling over before anyone shoots anything.

I'm pretty sure the assumption was that they would be welded neutrally to have the target standing on their own without helping any shooters or making it harder. It's in the best interest to everyone this way.
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Re: Silhouette "feet"

Post by No1_49er »

Thank you, Dennis.
A very handy image to keep on file for spotting board/s. I use similar ones albeit as individual animals with the same grid.

My "concerns", which I expressed in the original post are that (1), whilst all other dimensions are stated, the one for foot placement is not. It should never be the case that one needs to ask, other than to argue a definition before a disputes-panel.

And (2), the Silhouette Handbook which, as an official publication, has a number of pages that are almost illegible and do not reproduce in printed format very well at all.
A review of the quality of the Handbook (link provided in previous post) leaves much to be desired. Look at the cover, the first page (not the page numbered 1), pages numbered 5, 7, and 8, and convince me that this is a modern publication.

Worse is that the official rule-book states "Targets for NRA sanctioned Silhouette competition shall be of the size and shape established by the scale drawings in the NRA Silhouette Handbook or as scaled to alternate distances in accordance with Rule 6.4.1 and Rule 17.5.", but, that Handbook states, in its opening paragraph, "This booklet contains information of interest to those who wish to know more about Silhouette shooting. Rules are in a separate Rule Book available from NRA."
Surely silhouette dimensions are prescribed by rules and should therefore be a part of the Rule Book? We shouldn't have two documents, each referring to the other, neither of which is complete. Or, in the case of the Handbook, up to date.

Just my pedantic concerns.

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Re: Silhouette "feet"

Post by dwostler »

The red lines supposedly represent the "center of mass" for the animals.

Dennis
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Re: Silhouette "feet"

Post by No1_49er »

I am surprised!
People often come to this forum and argue minutia pertaining to the "rules" that define our sport, e.g., targets shot out of order, is 308ME a rimmed cartridge, aperture front sights, etc.
But, NOBODY wants to engage in discussion on the appalling quality of an NRA document (which one must therefore assume is an official publication) that is cross-referenced from the Rule Book but which contains outdated information and is in dire need of updating.
C'mon guys. Doesn't anybody care?
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Re: Silhouette "feet"

Post by MOTO VITA »

I laid awake all night worrying about Silhouette feet. This needs to be resolved!
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Re: Silhouette "feet"

Post by Merlin »

As long as we are splitting hairs what's the difference between wanting to know something needful and being a shit stirrer?

Just asking.....
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No1_49er
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Re: Silhouette "feet"

Post by No1_49er »

Some here seem to have conflated my question about foot placement with the other question about that other document which we are advised by the current Rule Book to consult.

Have you actually looked at the NRA Silhouette Handbook?
And having viewed it, you can recommend it as a valid and current document.
Nothing to do with shit-stirring, but asking about an official NRA publication.

Just saying.
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Re: Silhouette "feet"

Post by acorneau »

No1_49er wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:31 pm But, NOBODY wants to engage in discussion on the appalling quality of an NRA document (which one must therefore assume is an official publication) that is cross-referenced from the Rule Book but which contains outdated information and is in dire need of updating.
C'mon guys. Doesn't anybody care?
No one is surprised that the NRA isn't keeping up with an official document for a silly little sport they don't really care about. Are you?

Should it be updated? Of course. Are you going to step up and volunteer to do it? ........... :-??
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