NRA Configuration Rules

[PaulG]

OK, I don't get around that much, so I am not as "in the know" as some, so I'm thinking this topic may have been discussed and cussed at length in some circles. However, I am not a Johnny-come-lately to silhouette, having started with HP siluetas metalicas in the 1970s, and participating in all the rifle disciplines over the years. The point of this introduction is that I have watched the evolution of equipment rules, and particularly Hunter Rifle Silhouette, with the debates over allowed modifications, which at one time permitted rebarreling in sporter contours and chamberings that were ever offered in a specific model.

Like the original HP silhouette, sporting clays, and even skeet at its origin, lever rifle silhouette was intended to be an event in which the owner of a common firearm designed for hunting could participate without having to purchase expensive specialized gear. Good luck with that! What nobody could envision was the perfect storm with the demise of Winchester and Marlin who had produced iconic rifles for over a century, and increased demand, resulting in inflated prices, and especially for the scarce pistol chamberings and longer barrels that silhouette shooters prefer.

So why limit barrels to factory original, and reboring or lining? Seems like, as with NRA Hunter Rifle, allowing rebarreling in appropriate configurations would permit more relatively available short barreled carbines to be converted to a rifle more suitable for silhouette.

I'd be surprised if this hasn't been considered and debated by the powers that be, but from where I stand I can't see a major down side to it.

Paul

[GregG]

So why limit barrels to factory original, and reboring or lining? Seems like, as with NRA Hunter Rifle, allowing rebarreling in appropriate configurations would permit more relatively available short barreled carbines to be converted to a rifle more suitable for silhouette.

A little confused NRA Hunter Rifle can have the tapered barrel installed and does not have to be a factory original. However Cowboy silhouette rifles must use a factory or relined barrel.

[jnyork]

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[BrentD]

I don't see allowing new barrels as starting an arms race. I have heard it said that there are already a lot of new barrels on rifles on the line as it is. I hope that is just cynicism. We could still reline our barrels with the latest and greatest Lilja - I've done that on a low wall already, and that would be w/i the rules.

I like the game, I applaud the effort to keep it factory-like, but I think there are other ways of accomplishing that w/o eliminating so many original rifles from contention. It can be done by limiting ammo and calibers. And until they do away with fiber optic front sights and lenses in the rear, they really don't have a factory-authenticity leg to stand on.

It's a fun game and I would like to keep it that way, but it surely is not an inexpensive one.

Brent

[PaulG]

If we start this sort of thing, we will be right back to the equipment race that has ruined rifle silhouette and totally destroyed the IHMSA. Once allowed, everyone will have to have a rifle with a $500.00 Lilja barrel chambered in some exotic cartridge, complete with bloop tube to increase the sight radius. Oh yes, the sights. Nothing will do be the very latest Anschutz models with the latest high tech diopters and fiber optics. Of course, stocks will have to be custom fit fiberglass , wood will never do.

I'm sure you get the idea. Lever action is the last of the "pure" silhouette sports in existence, that is, grab you factory rifle and come out and shoot. That's why it is so popular, it doesn't take much of an investment to equip yourself, a Marlin 39A for smallbore, a Rossi for pc and a Marlin 336A for the big guys. All these are readily available if you want to look around a little. Let's keep it simple , affordable and FUN, leave the equipment races to others.

No, it doesn't have to be that way. That's a reductio ad absurdum argument. It's entirely possible to put a realistic limit on modifications. It's doesn't have to be all or nothing. I have exactly the combo you described, and it wouldn't be chicken feed to buy those three rifles on today's market.

[jnyork]

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[BrentD]

JNY, none of us want an arms race, but how do you figure the current regulation preventing rebarreling is stopping that? All it has done is cut out some of the guys that can't find a rifle that is suitable.

Relining is just about as expensive as rebarreling - maybe more. It allows the same cartridge race that you spoke of earlier, but it doesn't let someone buy a relatively cheap carbine and fit it with a rifle barrel. That's the biggest conundrum. Limiting cartridges to those that were commonly available over the counter would stop that, and to some extent already has, so that can be a nonfactor pretty quickly. New rifle barrels could be limited to the standard lengths available originally so no one goes nuts with a 40 incher, if that is a concern.

It would be nice to see people require loading ALL 5 cartridges through the magazine at the READY, not one at a time as they are fired. And doing away with the fiber optics and rear lens would do more than preventing arms races, but they are legal.

I wonder how long it will be that new lever guns will continue to be made?

It is a strange rule and not one that anyone has satisfactorily explained to many of us. I think that's Paul's point. It just doesn't add up.

Meanwhile, he has his and I have mine so, we could say, hell with the rest of the world, but we'd like to see it easier to get folks into the game.

[jnyork]

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[BrentD]

jy, you don't hang around the same gunshows I do. You won't even FIND a pistol caliber Marlin. The prices are much north of $450 when you do for any Marlin, even 39s, if they have half a chance of being competitively accurate. And CLA is anything but a big thing here.

The point is supply and demand. There is a big demand, and not much supply. Meanwhile a bunch of substandard (for silhouette) carbines languish.

Don't be a curmudgeon to the extent that an unwillingness to change means going down with the boat. If there are rules that are not helping the sport, and maybe even hurting it, let's change them.

Cartridge and bullet restrictions, barrel length if you like, and be done with it. And get rid of the fiber optics while yo are at it - if you want to talk game changers and arms races for CLA, they are in the sights and trigger jobs. Not barrel manufacturers.

[jnyork]

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[BrentD]

You know, you might not be in the same market place as others are.

It is odd that you are such a fan of the NRA rules, when you are also such a fan of Yuma's "shoot what ya brung" matches.

[jnyork]

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[BrentD]

We get 30-40 people out for the "shoot what ya brung" matches , 8-10 out for the NRA shoots. Should tell us something there. Not sure what it is.

Maybe it tells you that you need to let some folks rebarrel some rifles.

I guess you could say if we are going to have an NRA match, lets not be changing the rules to suit a few wealthy elites. How's that?.

Quite the opposite. you are protecting them of course.

We have a guy from Kali used to come over here for the NRA shoots, after every string he would take his rifle off the line, go back to the tables by the office and reset his sights for the next animal using a dial indicator. We were always pleased to beat him anyway. It's just crap like that that sets me off a little.

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Yeah, he is a good friend and shooting partner of mine. He likes to hit what he is aiming at after driving all the way from San Diego, and you criticize him for it? You are really bizarre.



[quote}I am probably in the same market as you, the vendors at the Yuma shows are mostly from Phoenix more than likely. I bought two of my guns here and one in Wyoming.

I don't think you and I are very far apart on all this, Brent. Would be a pleasure to pop some caps with you some day.

Best Regards.
Jerry[/quote]
I think we are very very far apart. In the absence of a compelling logic for keeping a rule around, you are against changing it. What the heck?

I'll be at Raton - see you there.

[jnyork]

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[BrentD]

Yeah, that happens when you start insulting my shooting partner. I'm sure he will find it amusing too.

I missed the part about name calling. Damn. I'll have to try harder next time.