NRA Configuration Rules

Centerfires, rimfires, pistol cartridges and everything in between.
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BrentD
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Re: NRA Configuration Rules

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No word yet from the NRA...
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Re: NRA Configuration Rules

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They probably did not work the past two day because of the snow storm.

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Last edited by cslcAl on Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NRA Configuration Rules

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glen ring wrote: I like the way Dustin handles the protests. Was that an air rifle match that you were disqualified from Dustin ?
Yes, it was the air rifle match in Winnsboro in 2012. And I should add that there was absolutely nothing wrong with the way the protest was handled or the decision that the jury made. The rifle was completely illegal per the rulebook. Knowing what I know now, it was no big deal. But back then I was a new shooter and it upset me. Now that I have some experience, I don't care what anybody shoots or if my equipment is protested; but I don't want someone coming to one of my matches and getting protested before the match and ruining a good time.

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ALPHAWOLF45
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Re: NRA Configuration Rules

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BrentD wrote:You made your rifle from scratch just
like Winchester, and you out-sourced your barrel just like Winchester. In my book, that's at least as originalas any rifle out there! ! You are totally legal as far as I'm concerned.

Damn ed impressive too!
This thread is not about me but pertains to those that think they are left out in the rules.....I was rushed to hospital emergency room today. Thought it was the big one but fortunately it wasn't. I am fine. Point being that life is short and I think we should be able to shoot the guns that make us happy...I have a nasty messed up Marlin model 1893 action that was given to me by a fine gentleman - Whitey Hanson who passed away in October 2013. If I had all of my druthers I would build up that action into a gun and use it in competition.....You may not be able to imagine how much I feel a sense of unfairness to be told that I cant use it.....I have lost most of my very good friends . Humans die after a very short lifetime...Far as I am concerned this shooting sport is entirely about heritage, honoring our past and hopefully passing something precious down to the next generation
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Re: NRA Configuration Rules

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Dustin,
Might I politely remind you that you were told when you purchased that air rifle that got you disqualified that you were informed that it was illegal, and you chose to bring it to Winnsboro and shoot it anyway.
While I do see your point of the protest, any illegal equipment or position should be corrected at the time, not after the match. I do feel that all rifles should be randomly checked during any national match and at least 50% checked randomly immediately following the last shot fired.

Mary
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Re: NRA Configuration Rules

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Amen. To Alpha Wolf posting.
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Re: NRA Configuration Rules

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Innocent wrote:While I do see your point of the protest, any illegal equipment or position should be corrected at the time, not after the match. I do feel that all rifles should be randomly checked during any national match and at least 50% checked randomly immediately following the last shot fired.

Mary
I think I have to agree with Mary. It is only fair to the others on the line that issues are corrected, if need be, as they come to light. A DQed competitor might be allowed to shoot out the match, having traveled a long ways, perhaps, but the DQ has to be happen when it is noted so other competitors are not put in the position of wondering or feeling forced to file unnecessary duplicate complaints.

There is a place for shoot-what-ya-brung matches but there are also places for more competitive matches where there is and emphasis on a level playing field.

As just one example, I'd be happy to shoot an anything goes .22 silhouette match at the local range 13 miles down the road if one were available again. But I would not drive across half a continent to shoot that match like I do every year to shoot nationals in various disciplines.

Mary, I think you are doubly right about checking rifles after the last shot - in some games, the winners rifles are inspected by the jury immediately after the last shot. That's a great alternative to pulling apart every rifle before the match.

In BPCR/BPTR, I have advocated that the directors walk down the line at any time in the middle of the match and pluck a round from each shooter's box, at their own discretion, and then pull apart the rounds of the top placing shooters after the match is over. In those games, I believe cheating is somewhere between very rare and nonexistent, but I would rather KNOW than believe.

Still waiting on the NRA. I expect it could be quite a while yet, but I've got the itch to get to the bottom of this, because I thought and believed that a rifle assembled from parts, including the barrel, would be legal if the barrel was original to the same maker and model. I believed that Alpha's 93 could be built into a match rifle using a take-off barrel from another 93. Now I want to KNOW that it can (or can't).
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Re: NRA Configuration Rules

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Innocent wrote:Might I politely remind you that you were told when you purchased that air rifle that got you disqualified that you were informed that it was illegal, and you chose to bring it to Winnsboro and shoot it anyway.
Mary, no one told me anything about that rifle when I bought it because I didn't ask anybody. I had just started shooting and I wanted a TX200, so I bought one. Note that I said that the protest was handled correctly and the correct decision was made - but that didn't make me feel any better at the time. Now I know the rules - no big deal. Then, for a new shooter, big deal!
BrentD wrote: I think I have to agree with Mary. It is only fair to the others on the line that issues are corrected, if need be, as they come to light. A DQed competitor might be allowed to shoot out the match, having traveled a long ways, perhaps, but the DQ has to be happen when it is noted so other competitors are not put in the position of wondering or feeling forced to file unnecessary duplicate complaints.
Eh, I disagree - I don't think the other shooters on the line are being treated unfairly, AND, the great thing about being the match director is that I get to do it my way! :-bd I don't get many protests at my matches, and that's the way I like it. :ymparty: (Of course, at the Air Rifle Nationals that our club hosts, we have to do everything by the book, so it's a little different there. I don't get to charge my $25 protest fee.)

One clarification, if someone files a protest BEFORE the match and it's something that can be easily changed before the match starts, we will let the shooter know so that the change can be made. In my experience, however, most protests are lodged after the match has started in an effort to affect the other shooter as much as possible - but I don't like those type of head games; that's not how we roll down here.

Of course, If we or I believe that someone is deliberately trying to break the rules or cheat, it's handled accordingly. I'm talking about situations where shooters are unwittingly violating a rule (a rule that is probably completely useless anyway). For example, last year at Winnsboro one of the young junior shooters was warming up with a golf glove on (which is technically against the rules unless it's cold, but it's not cold in Louisiana in June). One of the shooters asked me if I was going to let her shoot with the glove on. I told him it's not my place to tell her what she can or can't do as long as she's being safe. He told me that he wanted to lodge a protest and gave me $25. I said fine - then I told her that she was going to be protested for her glove and she'd likely be penalized if she wore it in the match - she took it off before the match started and low and behold even without that evil illegal glove she was somehow still able to shoot good scores!

That particular time the protestor had the decency to point out the problem before the match started - here is a more common example: The match has started and everyone has shot one animal. Someone lodges a protest against a shooter saying his barrel isn't tapered or his cheekpiece is too high over the bore or someone loaded a round in a cowboy rifle directly into the bore or some other useless crap like that. In most matches, the match is stopped and everyone sits around for half an hour while the jury is called together and a decision is made. The shooter cant do anything about the issue and he/she is all flustered and upset and his/her match is ruined. At one of my matches after the protest is lodged (with a $25 fee) the match continues without delay and the matter is privately handled with the jury after the match.

Sorry this has gone so far off topic...

Dustin
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Re: NRA Configuration Rules

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Dustin, I don't quite know how to respond to your last post, as I don't want to provoke you. I have the utmost respect for your accomplishments in the short time you have been shooting silhouette.
But I would be remiss if I didn't point out that there is only one way to run any Sanctioned silhouette match and the is by following the current rules. When we as club officials apply for sanctioning of any match we do so under the stipulation of the NRA that the current rules will be enforced.
Now am I a total hard ass, NO. I try to be as fair as possible, especially when new shooters are involved. A new shooter will usually have that deer in the headlights look at their first match and I try to pair them up with a veteran shooter. However it is the competitors responsibility to be familiar with the rules.
If someone brings equiptment to our matches that is that far out in respect to the rules, I will let them shoot but their score won't count in the match awards or be scored in the classification book.
I've been to a lot of matches where protests were not handled properly, and that never goes well for any parties involved. A protest must be handled immediately. Yes it may interrupt the flow of the match, but a mishandled protest can effect the outcome of the match.
I also agree this is getting off topic, and maybe we can discuss this further over a cold drink sometime. I hope Brent gets an answer on his rebarrel question. Brent you better call Greg, if he's the only one in the office he won't know how to turn is computer on.
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Re: NRA Configuration Rules

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Al, I'm about to launch on a short road trip. So, I won't be calling Greg until Thursday at the earliest and more like Friday. I would prefer that they answer by email since it might be a more considered response, rather than an off the cuff answer without reference to rule books or whatever.

Anyway, Friday is likely when I would get a chance to actually call them. But I will if I have to.
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Re: NRA Configuration Rules

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cslcAl wrote: A protest must be handled immediately.
Why?

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Re: NRA Configuration Rules

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I like the way Dustin handles the protests and we'll certainly adopt that way at our matches. The #1 goal is to recruit new shooters and I'm with Dustin on how things should be handled to not make a new shooter not want to come back. I have seen shooters at matches wear gloves. One lady had hand problems and wore them. I didn't care and no one else did either. I have seen a shooter with a LARGE belly lean against a rifle stand and shoot a match. His belly was so damn big he might not have known it was touching. No one cared. I think it's brilliant to charge $25.00 for a protest. Decades ago, we shot PPC against a guy that liked to mess with folks JUST before the line was called to load. He liked to file protests or comment on their equipment being broken or defective before they shot. He was a dick. We all got together and returned the favors to him at every match....he finally got the message and stopped. Some people that are messed with say to hell with it and quit shooting. I like the approach that Dustin took...becoming a world class air rifle shooter and kicking the ass of the competition.
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Re: NRA Configuration Rules

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Dustin,

Why? Because it's in the rules!

16.3 How to Protest - A protest must be initiated immediately upon the occurrence of the protested incident. Failure to comply with the following procedure will automatically void the protest
(a) State the complaint orally to the Chief Range Officer or Chief Statistical Officer, whoever applies. If not satisfied with that deci- sion, then
(b) State the complaint orally to the Match Director. If not satisfied with the Match Director’s decision, then
(c) State the complaint orally to the members of the Jury. If not satisfied with their decision, then
(d) File a formal protest in writing with the Match Director stating all the facts in the case. Such written protest must be filed within one hour of completion of the match.
(e) The Match Director will then forward the protest with a complete statement of facts within 48 hours of receipt thereof to the Protest Committee at NRA Headquarters.

Understand I didn't find this book a can't put down work of literature, and I didn't stay up at nights reading it. But in 33 of shooting silhouette (and most of them being involved in running matches) I have at one time or another come across most of the subjects covered in this volume.
Hey,there's lots of things in the rules I don't agree with, but as a match director I am charged to in force them. If you don't believe me that's in the book also.
One of my good shooting pals has a great idea. The NRA should charge $15.00 for a classification book and it would include a current rule book. Maybe then it wouldn't take so long for new shooters to learn what's what.
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Re: NRA Configuration Rules

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cslcAl wrote:Why? Because it's in the rules!

16.3 How to Protest - A protest must be initiated immediately upon the occurrence of the protested incident. Failure to comply with the following procedure will automatically void the protest
(a) State the complaint orally to the Chief Range Officer or Chief Statistical Officer, whoever applies. If not satisfied with that deci- sion, then
(b) State the complaint orally to the Match Director. If not satisfied with the Match Director’s decision, then
(c) State the complaint orally to the members of the Jury. If not satisfied with their decision, then
(d) File a formal protest in writing with the Match Director stating all the facts in the case. Such written protest must be filed within one hour of completion of the match.
(e) The Match Director will then forward the protest with a complete statement of facts within 48 hours of receipt thereof to the Protest Committee at NRA Headquarters.
Al,

I read that rule when I was implementing my protest procedure - and I may be reading it wrong but I don't see anything in that rule that that requires a protest to be handled immediately in the middle of the match rather than after the match. Protests at my matches are filed immediately upon the occurrence, as the rule requires. They are filed to a match officer, match director, or jury member, as the rule requires. Also, if the protestor is not happy I will gladly forward the protest on to Greg Connor within 48 hours so that it can be lost forever in NRA-land. We just keep the protest private and wait till after the match to bring the jury together to decide the issue (I bring every protest to the jury - I don't decide protests unless it is a very specific question for the MD). I don't see anything in the rule that disallows my procedure (or forbids requiring a protest fee).

I hope no one gets the impression that we don't follow the rules at our regionals and championship matches - we do; very much so. Even the rules that are entirely redundant and have no bearing on the outcome of the match are followed. I just choose to handle the protests in a way that I believe minimizes the disruption to the match and the possibility of spoiling the shooters' good time. All this shooting we do is ultimately about having a good time, anyway.

Thanks for weighing in on this, Al. I respect your knowledge and experience and certainly your ability. We can certainly disagree if we must or maybe one of us will be convinced otherwise.

Dustin
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Re: NRA Configuration Rules

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Dustin ,
I shoot a lot of matches all over the place with a lot of different shooters and match directors, but I sure don't see many complaints or challenges or protests. But when there is someone on the line that seems to be in contention with an illegal gun or ammo or some other rules violation, that spreads up and down the line fast and has the effect of ruining everyone's day or at least contributing to a less than happy atmosphere. I'd rather see one person unhappy rather than dozens.

And, frankly, I don't see all the intrigue of other shooters filing protests just to get inside someone's head. It may happen, but in fact, I've never seen it. I hope if anyone questions my shooting at a match that they would be able to protest (FOR FREE, I can't really believe you charge $25 for a protest), and it can be resolved on the spot.

Brent
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