Smallbore Cowboy Rifle rifles

[jloehle]

There is some thought in our area about doing Smallbore Lever. I'm not sure any of us know that much about shooting it as we mostly do regular Smallbore.

So, my questions are... Why is the Marlin 39A considered to be the best rifle for this? Is it just a really accurate rifle with a great trigger? How old does the Marlin 39A need to be to be a good one?

Are there other rifles that are good as well? What makes them not as good as the Marlin 39A?

What kind of sights are best used? Do you have links to them so I can see them?

I have tried searching for all of this, but the threads always evolve into a more esoteric conversation that is tough to follow if you don’t know the basics.

Thanks in advance.

Joe

[OldRanger]

I am just starting out in this cowboy smallbore, and I got a 39A from 1957-58. It has a crisp trigger but its a little heavier than I like, I'll have it worked on at some point. Its reliable and accurate. At our matches some folks swear by their henry's, one guy shoots an old pump gallery gun, and some have winchester 94's. The sights vary from stock buckhorns to skinner (receiver and tang) sights. I am using the Williams receiver rear with a Lyman 17A front. Some folks use fiber optic in their front sights, some don't. Here is the NRA national championship document, it shows you how many of what type of guns were used. And how many used fiber optic front sights.
http://compete.nra.org/documents/pdf/co ... cowboy.pdf

This is something like what I use with finger turnable knobs.


Good luck!

[snaketail2]

I finally got a 39a.
I started with a Browning BL-22 - nice rifle, added a Williams Receiver sight, a Lyman 17AUG front sight and shot the rifle for two years.
I moved up to AA - then started losing matches to shooters with marlin 39a. So I got a 39a.

The Marlin has a better trigger, it has a longer sight radius, it is heavier (and therefore more stable), and there is a good selection of aftermarket add-ons. Mine is a 1985 vintage and has a nice trigger, but you can add a Wild West trigger easily - many do.

In my opinion a good lever action silhouette rifle has a good sights (tang or receiver peep sight) with reliable & repeatable settings, it has a good trigger and fits the shooter well.

The little BL-22 fit me fine, until I tried the 39a. Now I understand the difference.

FYI - you can shoot lever, pump or semi-auto in Smallbore Lever Action Silhouette. But most stick to the traditional lever style and shoot the same gun in Pistol Cartridge and accept the occasional lost ram.

Hope this helps,
Michael

[jnyork]

I favor the 39a as do most of the people in my club. Try to find a nice one made before 1988. These are what I would call "man-sized" guns as opposed to others that are more for youngsters size-wise. The older ones usually have a serviceable trigger and it can be lightened quite a bit by changing out the hammer strut spring. They are very reliable and simple to work on if need arises. Long sight radius and more weight out front contribute to making them a good tool for the job.

[jloehle]

Thanks for some of the answers so far.

One thing I neglected to ask... It is always tough with older/used guns, but what does a 39A go for? What do I need to look out for on them?

Joe

[OldRanger]

$400 and up is what an older one in good shape will go for (if you are lucky).

I was told the only good ones were before the safety and rebounding hammer strut were put in. I don't know how accurate that is, but it does seem to be the consensus. If you google up something like 'marlin serial number year' there is a page out there telling you what year a gun was made based on the serial number. Pre-80's is what you are shooting for I think.

[chuckjordan2]

I have a couple of 39A and can cover my thoughts on some of the various years (not all years, some).

2012 Remlin - has a heavier (largest OD) barrel, and I crowned it in a 4-jaw lathe. It's very accurate with FAM (automatch). It takes a little work on the inside action (polish extractor, deepen flywheel cut/relief in barrel, stone action halves, remove burrs from firing pin (modified to lengthen ever so slightly), remove 3/4 of the rebounding hammer). Real easy tasks if you work on guns. I like it the best as it points well, trigger is great (have a secret there I won't tell), and shoots accurate. Wood has stupid pressed checkering, but, I didn't buy this tool for looks (after market stocks available). Shot my best score (a Master score) with it. After working on it, it has been flawless, I mean flawless (no FF, no FE)

1960 - Little to no taper on the barrel, OD not as large as current model. The forend is thin. This one was cleaned by prior owner(s) with a steel rod and microgrooves at the muzzle are non existent (worn down and replacement barrels are no place to be found) . Shoots about a 2" group at Turkeys. Looks pleasing, shoots OK.

1950-ish model - The barrel tapers and is light at the end. It whips around (barrel is light!) and doesn't stay still. I used to heavy match rifles and the reason for my comments. This one is being looked at by a friend (who's considering to buy it).

Summary, I like my Remlin and after a little work it's a gem. Now if the factory would make these simple modifications they'd be worth their weight in gold. Yes the crossbolt is stupid, but, it's great when teaching youngsters.

[Tlee]

There is some thought in our area about doing Smallbore Lever. I'm not sure any of us know that much about shooting it as we mostly do regular Smallbore.

So, my questions are... Why is the Marlin 39A considered to be the best rifle for this? Is it just a really accurate rifle with a great trigger? How old does the Marlin 39A need to be to be a good one?

Are there other rifles that are good as well? What makes them not as good as the Marlin 39A?

What kind of sights are best used? Do you have links to them so I can see them?

I have tried searching for all of this, but the threads always evolve into a more esoteric conversation that is tough to follow if you don’t know the basics.

Thanks in advance.

Joe

Joe -

At the 2014 Cowboy Rifle Silhouette Nationals the Smallbore category equipment survey showed 105 Marlins, 20 Winchesters, 13 Henry's, 9 Ubertis, 2 Remington's, and 1 each of Browning and Cimmeron. Although it did not indicate model numbers, it's a good assumption that the majority of the Marlins are model 39/39A/1897 derivatives. I did see a few model 57 Levermatics and a couple model 60 semiautos at this year's national match. Page 34 of the match results shows the equipment survey listings: http://competitions.nra.org/documents/p ... cowboy.pdf

I do see a bigger variety of rifle brands/models at local and state matches. At my local match it's not unusual at all to see more Henry's than Marlins and occasionally even more Winchesters. So I believe its more what's readily available than anything (which, IMO, is exactly what Cowboy silhouette is intended to be, rather than "an equipment race" as most competitions wind up turning into). One thing that seems to be consistent in most places is some form of adjustable rear site. I see more Williams Foolproof receiver mounted than others, followed by Lyman or Redfields, then followed by tang sites of various brands. The majority of front sites, occasionally only by a slight margin, are typically Lyman 17 globes followed by any number of other post or bead configurations.

My primary Cowboy smallbore rifle currently is a Marlin 39A and my backup is a Henry H001T Frontier model. I do prefer the Marlin for competition, but I prefer the Henry for "critter getter" duty at the ranch. I shot the Henry for years in competition and wouldn't hesitate to use it again. My wife and son prefer the Henry over the Marlin 39A. He consistently shoots AAA and occasionally a Masters score using the Henry. I've also shot a Marlin 57 Levermatic, a model 60, a Winchester 9422, a Remington pump and a Fieldmaster model. IMO, they're all just as capable & plenty accurate for SBCR duty.

As has been stated often here before, shooting a 39/39A isn't a requirement to be competitive or even a national champion. I do know shooters using any of the others listed that regularly win matches, and even some have won national events using something other than a 39/39A.

My .02,

- Tim

PS - regarding 39A pricing... Like most things, that's driven by demand... I seldom see one go locally for less than $500, regardless of vintage, and sometimes even condition. Even the Model 57 and 60s, which IMO, Marlin came out with as price point guns, are going much higher now than what they were even a very few years ago, sometimes by a factor of 3X. That's also why I believe the Henry's are so popular locally ($350-400 new), and also why I'm seeing other brands/models showing up.

[jloehle]

Came across a local guy on Facebook that has one for sale. He sent me some photos. It is a 1964 model.







He is asking $475, so doesn’t seem too bad. I have asked about the rifling, but not gotten a response yet.

Anything else I should be looking for when I look at it in person?

Joe

[snaketail2]

I'm sure others will have additional info - but, I'd look closely at the condition of the muzzle - does it look like there is any cleaning wear?
I always take a dummy .22 round - blue aluminum - to check the cycling of the rifle...does it load, does it eject cleanly? I don't drop the hammer on my dummy round - that destroyed them quickly. But, If you hold the hammer with your thumb you can feel the trigger without "firing" the rifle.

$450 is a very good price - see if you can determine why (maybe his wife wants it out of the house, maybe it has some issues...).

Michael

[chuckjordan2]

Bring a flashlight and mirror. Use the mirror to view the bore (without looking directly into the bore) and flashlight shows the condition.

[edgehit]

Marlin 39's are walnut and steel like a real gun ought to be. I'm going bash the 39A's a bit so that everyone's expectations are in line. Like most .22's, getting a new or used Marlin 39A that is an exceptional shooter is a crap shoot. I've owned 3 used ones and sold them all because they wouldn't shoot accurately enough at 100m to meet my expectations of 1-1/2" groups. All of them were squeaky clean on the outside but didn't hold up on paper. One had no rifling remaining in the muzzle. Shame because it was a 1952 Ballard rifle model. These are take down rifles for a reason, to be cleaned from the chamber end!

39A's are a man sized walnut and steel rifle. The triggers can be easily improved to a competitive break. And aftermarket sights can be easily bought and installed. For these reasons I recommend 39A with all the caveats about accuracy.

When I see photos of a 39A like the one above that show some condition indicating lack of maintenance, I immediately think no one has screwed up the crown with a cleaning rod. Regardless, I would carefully inspect the crown, even shoot the rifle before buying if your expectation is the gun is to be an accurate shooter.

I've talked with several marlin owners who struggled to find ammo their rifle shot well. One new Remlin had to be sent back to the factory bcse chamber was 0.040" too deep. It patterned real nice 4" groups. A couple of guys have to shoot expensive target ammo to get ok accuracy. One of those has a rebound hammer.

I questioned a buddy who trades at gun shows about 39A woes and he said you need to buy about 10 to find one keeper, then sell the rest. I think he's exaggerating some, but he has gun safes full of them. In the end, I think the barrels are cheaply made and have sloppy chambers. The micro groove rifling isn't durable and disappears when a rod abuses the bore. They're meant to be plinkers, but guys like me want them to keep up with a 1712. I got lucky and found a rifle that does, but had to spend time and money on 3 to find THE one.

Life is a journey. Jump in, get a rifle and enjoy the ride.

[dustinflint]

Why under heaven does anyone put a cleaning rod in a .22 anyway?? Get some weed eater string and pull a patch through it a few times a year and shoot the thing.

Dustin

[snaketail2]

Now, now Dustin, not everyone knows about Cajun cleaning methods. Some of us use "store-bought" and like it...I have an Otis pull through cleaning kit that I kinda like.

Michael

[Bob259]

Why under heaven does anyone put a cleaning rod in a .22 anyway?? Get some weed eater string and pull a patch through it a few times a year and shoot the thing.

Dustin

LOL Careful Dustin you can start a whole war over .22 cleaning methods. I would guess more bench rest guys have worn out their .22 barrels from cleaning than shooting them, we have an old school SB coach that believes they must be completely cleaned after every outing, regardless of the number of rounds fired.

Also, he hates the nylon pull throughs as he says they can damage the crown if you do not pull straight out.