New Rules for Cowboy Lever...

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jnyork
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Re: New Rules for Cowboy Lever...

Post by jnyork »

This is going to end up just like every other NRA shooting sport, the little guys come out to have a little fun only to find the elitist well-heeled uppercrusters with their highly specialized , win at any cost, equipment totally dominating the "sport". Ruined high power silhouette, ruined smallbore silhouette, ruined IHMSA completely. Sad. Really sad.
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Re: New Rules for Cowboy Lever...

Post by Jason »

Your definition of "ruined" must be a lot different than mine. Smallbore and highpower silhouette seem to be doing just fine to me. We're actually working on plans to build new target stands so we can handle more shooters with fewer relays.
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Re: New Rules for Cowboy Lever...

Post by dustinflint »

jnyork wrote:This is going to end up just like every other NRA shooting sport, the little guys come out to have a little fun only to find the elitist well-heeled uppercrusters with their highly specialized , win at any cost, equipment totally dominating the "sport". Ruined high power silhouette, ruined smallbore silhouette, ruined IHMSA completely. Sad. Really sad.
Got to disagree with that. I don't know anything about IHMSA, but I've never seen someone win a rifle silhouette match just because of equipment and I have beaten lots of folks shooting rifles that cost twice what mine cost.

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Re: New Rules for Cowboy Lever...

Post by tenx9 »

This will be my last post for awhile because I dont like being negative on a positive situation, but your statements silly. Frankly, I haven't been on here for some time, but as I recall I said this would happen probably a year or so ago and said so in print on here. So. feel free to check out my last posts. Yes, its standing, but if you don't believe an improved sight picture and absolute and repeatable sight settings make a difference then no more talking about it is necessary. Maybe you won't see a multitudes of perfect scores but higher classifications will certainly happen more quickly. Unfortunately, we only see the scores of the top guys and the high scores seem justified. Hey, its good for the sport. The sport makes newbies jump in and shoot pretty good quickly. Easy targets at relatively short distances. Why bop and weave with a 20+ power scope on tiny targets when I shoot big targets fairly easily. Like I said and written before, why would I fight and shoot 15 targets when I can shoot 30. Of course the choice is yours.......caio
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Re: New Rules for Cowboy Lever...

Post by PhxShooter »

tenx9,

Also gotta disagree with your last comments.
Maybe you won't see a multitudes of perfect scores but ...
Just FYI, NO ONE has EVER shot a perfect 40 in a State, Regional or National match in either SBCLA or PCCLA. Yeah I'd have to agree that you won't see a multitude of perfect scores. Regarding the
Easy targets at relatively short distances
why are you only shooting a 30 if they're that easy and close? Not trying to start a fight here but it does kinda irritate me when folks talk about how easy the sport is. I've shot tens of thousands of rounds and spent many, many, many hours of dedicated practice to earn Master Class in CLA, SBCLA & PCCLA. I'm at the range EVERY week and sometimes multiple times a week still trying to improve my skills.

I don't care what equipment you use you've still got to have proper sight alignment, breathing, trigger control, and follow through. Anyone who doesn't use the best equipment that your budget will allow isn't truly concerned with shooting the best they can and with winning. I'm a very competitive person and if I have the skills I want to win. If I don't have the skills to win ( as in Sporting Clays) then I still like to participate but I don't begrudge the shooter who beats me and has the $25,000 + Perazzi shotgun that I don't have. I'm gonna guess that if he had my Beretta and I had his Perazzi he'd still beat me because he has the skill. I shoot in Master Class in Sporting Clays but simply no longer have the time to put in the effort to maintain my skills. Such is life.

My suggestion would be to anyone in this sport is to quit worrying about what equipment someone else has or is using and direct your energies to improving your own equipment to the best you can reasonably afford then spend all the time you can in serious practice. After you've done that then go to all the matches you can, shoot your best and have a great time win or lose. :)
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Re: New Rules for Cowboy Lever...

Post by hermit5 »

jnyork,you are correct about how silhouette has been ruined by the equipement race.Don't give up the ship on leveraction.
Jason with all due respect,i believe you have not been in this game long.What happens is the new shooter is so overwhelmed by equipement that they don't even begin,trust us.It's called entry level and should remain so.Hunters pistol was also ruined by equipement race.
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Re: New Rules for Cowboy Lever...

Post by PhxShooter »

jnyork & hermit5,

jnyouk wrote:
the little guys come out to have a little fun only to find the elitist well-heeled uppercrusters with their highly specialized , win at any cost, equipment totally dominating the "sport".
hermit5 wrote:
you are correct about how silhouette has been ruined by the equipement race
Would either of you care to explain exactly what equipment you're talking about in the "equipment race" that is ruining the lever gun sport? Seriously I'm baffled. Maybe I'm missing something. I've only been in the sport 5 years.

jnyork, may I assume you're one of the "little guys com(ing) out to have a little fun". If so that's great cuz it should be fun but also if that's so then why do you care what the "elitist well-heeled uppercrusters with their highly specialized , win at any cost, equipment" are shooting. You came out to have fun and not to win. Right?

hermit5, where is it called "entry level"? I was under the impression that lever action was a sport all on its own and not just a stepping stone to what? I kinda thought that was why it had its own State, Regional and National Championships.
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Re: New Rules for Cowboy Lever...

Post by dustinflint »

hermit5 wrote:jnyork,you are correct about how silhouette has been ruined by the equipement race.
No, that is not correct. Silhouette has not been ruined. The problem silhouette has is not equipment, it's that lots of shooters prefer easier, faster matches that they see on TV. The second problem that silhouette has is the guy running the silhouette show at the NRA that does nothing to promote the game. Dont blame anything on equipment and dont think that you're getting beat because of another shooter's equipment. If you're at a silhouette match and you're getting beat, it's because the shooters beating you are better than you.
hermit5 wrote:What happens is the new shooter is so overwhelmed by equipement that they don't even begin,trust us.
You know what I've NEVER seen?: a new shooter overwhelmed by the equipment at a silhouette match. I've seen folks intimidated by the difficulty of the game, but I've never heard someone at their first match say "an ANSCHUTZ!?I? I'm NEVER coming back!!!" That's goofy. I know lots of shooters that shoot silhouette primarily BECAUSE of the cool rifles they get to play with.
hermit5 wrote:It's called entry level and should remain so.
It's not called entry level. It's called Cowboy Lever Action silhouette and it is a competitive shooting sport and and anytime you have a competitive sport you're going to have people that want to WIN and work hard to get good to kick everyone else's butts! There is nothing wrong with that.

"Entry level" in silhouette is called "B class."

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Re: New Rules for Cowboy Lever...

Post by GregG »

Errr.... I have heard for years it is the cost of the equipment, if we could just make it cheap everyone would shoot this sport. This is just not true. Our events need to be fun, inclusive and each of us has to prompt the shooting sports. The problem with most NRA sports is they are old, and precision based.

The modern shooting sports are fast and are action based. USPSA, IDPA, three gun, gosh, I shoot them they are fun. Most of the participates hit most targets. Lots more rewarding (in some ways) to shoot 100 rounds hit 80.

But back to the equipment costs. I truly like to steal when I hear something good. This was stollen from BM, how many people know someone who purchases a new bass boat, then a new truck to hall it around, then fishing polls, etc. And they catch 3 fish.

To me it comes down to was it fun. We own a lot to was it fun, I have been beat with a 50 dollar rifles, and a 2,000 dollar rifle. At the end of the day did you have fun...... BRIs pistol silhouette had died, Emmett has made it fun and we now have 10+ each match when it was 1 or 2.

We are responsible to make it fun, it is not the equipment costs....


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Re: New Rules for Cowboy Lever...

Post by cedestech »

dustinflint wrote:[ "Entry level" in silhouette is called "B class."

Dustin
No... Really Dustin.... tell us how you feel about it.... :))

FWIW, running our CLA/HP match for almost a year now I can say I have seen really high scores shot with a couple hundred dollar rifles and with very high dollar rifles. As with most "sports" that require equipment, you can give the guy with skill the worse equipment and the guy with a low skill set the nicest equipment and the results will be almost the same.

99% of our guys who shoot CLA shoot SB also and almost to the man, they shoot almost the same rating in both. If CLA was that much "easier" they should shoot one or more ratings higher.

CLA is different, not "easier".
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Re: New Rules for Cowboy Lever...

Post by GregG »

Try that again..... I shot more than 10 more per match than I do in small-bore and close to 15 from high-power.
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Re: New Rules for Cowboy Lever...

Post by cedestech »

GregG wrote:Try that again..... I shot more than 10 more per match than I do in small-bore and close to 15 from high-power.
You Sir, are the exception..... There is always one....' =))
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Re: New Rules for Cowboy Lever...

Post by GregG »

cedestech wrote:
GregG wrote:Try that again..... I shot more than 10 more per match than I do in small-bore and close to 15 from high-power.
You Sir, are the exception..... There is always one....' =))

Look at the classes break downs if you do not believe me. CLA is higher.
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Re: New Rules for Cowboy Lever...

Post by hermit5 »

Entry level is shooting a rifle that is not much different right out of the box by a master or b shooter and not determined by ones budget.
You may not believe this but there was a time when more shooters were on the line shooting Rem 541t with factory triggers,same with Rem 700 out of the box with factory triggers.This kept an even playing field.
The equipement race in lever guns will be when rebarreling or changing stocks,or rule of no olympic type sights etc gets thrown out.
History repeats itself.It happened in hunters pistol,sb,hp.
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Re: New Rules for Cowboy Lever...

Post by boats »

My opinion, based on 25 years of Silhouette, few nationals, dozen or so States last 10 MD at our Club is the Hunter rifle class rule change, allowing re-barreled FrankenHunters has been negative for the sport. I was at those meetings when a small group made so much noise over the weight limit and abllity of factory barrels to hit rams the rule was changed. Now we have a one gun match, used to be most of us had a Silhouette rifle and Hunter rifle. Look at what's on the line they are not Hunting rifles even if the rule says they are. You ought to see what's on the firing line at a Schuetzen match these days. Fully modern rifles that don't even come close to a period Schuetzen Rifle. And if you don't have one your not going to win a Schuetzen match.

Go over to Lever same thing, few clubs ignored the front sight rule pushed fiber optics, now target rear sights that never appeared on lever guns way back when. Next step my forecast, nothing out there yet, will be re-barrel to smaller caliber wildcats on 30/30 cases. It's like the tide coming in you can't stop tinkerers. Or a few vocal shooters changing the rules to suit themselves.

Not saying I don't follow the trends, If I thought F/O was better would have one, sight rule opened up first thing I did was buy two Redfields. Allow re-barreling my 24 inch 36A 30/30 will become a heavy barrel tight chambered 25/35 and a heavy Douglas goes on my 39A. It's just relaxing the rule is negative, no doubt about it.

my opinion, not all will agree

Boats
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