.357 Magnum Loads for Rifle Caliber Silhouettes

[JohnHenry]

I've decided to try my Marlin CB, 24" barrel in .357 mag on the rifle caliber silhouettes.

Someone posted a load of 13.6 g of Lil Gun behind a 158 Hornady XTP bullet. I've tried that load and at 100 meters it will shoot 5 shot 1" groups. So, I think that is a good load for the chickens, pigs, and turkeys.

For the rams I have some 180g Hornady XTP bullets. The question is: what powder and charge is safe and accurate for this bullet?

Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks.

Jim Luke

[glen ring]

Jim
You have an exceptionally accurate 357. Look at hodgons web site as there are several loads listed. I have always liked h110 for the 180 grain bullet, but your gun may prefer other.

Great shooting at the Nationals. I was very impressed at your accuracy with your 357 and we enjoyed meeting you. You are a great ambassador for the sport.

[Tlee]

I've decided to try my Marlin CB, 24" barrel in .357 mag on the rifle caliber silhouettes.

Someone posted a load of 13.6 g of Lil Gun behind a 158 Hornady XTP bullet. I've tried that load and at 100 meters it will shoot 5 shot 1" groups. So, I think that is a good load for the chickens, pigs, and turkeys.

For the rams I have some 180g Hornady XTP bullets. The question is: what powder and charge is safe and accurate for this bullet?

Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks.

Jim Luke

Jim -

In our 357, for CLA I use a 158gr JHP or JSP for Chickens, Pigs, and Turkeys. On the Chickens and Pigs I use 5gr of 700X (same as I use in the 357 for PCCLA). I have used that same load on Turkeys, however I wind up with my Williams FP at the fully extended point with that load at CLA turkeys. It works well if there's no wind, but 'not so much' in the wind as that bullet really starts to shead velocity fast out beyond 100yards when driven subsonic. Therefore, I usually use 14gr of LilGun with the same bullet on turkeys now and wind up with the same exact site setting as my low velocity pig load.

Concerning the Rams... Last year I used 13 to 15 grains of LilGun with either the 180 Jacketed in either Hornady XTPs or the discontinued JTC-SILs. The group would start to open up around 15gr, but even at 15gr they were still "minute of chicken". They worked great locally, however we lost several Rams during the 60 round New Mexico CLA state match last year when firing on banks 1 and 3 from firing point 2. All hits on bank 2 fell no problem, so I believe the angle we were shooting at was the difference.

This year in the 357 on CLA Rams we used a Saeco mould 180gr gas-checked LEAD bullet (cast from wheel weights) with 13.7gr of LilGun and ALL the rams fell, even ones I hit during practice that were 3 banks away. I've been told by a couple lead casting guys much more experienced than me that the jacketed pistol bullets tend to break up before transferring all their energy to the Ram, whereas the softer lead bullets have a "spit ball" effect and will put more energy on the target.

my .02,

-Tim

[JohnHenry]

Glen, thanks for the kind words. I feel the same about you and Jeannie. One of the best aspects of the cowboy silhouette sport is the great people involved in it, and I count you two in that group!

Tim, why is it the lead bullet will consistently knock over the rams with the same load used with jacketed bullets? I suppose it's because the lead flattens out over a larger surface on the animal. I think I'll use 13.6 g of Lil Gun with the 180 grain bullet and see what happens. I was a little apprehensive about using Lil Gun since Hodgdon's data does not show it for rifle use in the.357, especially with the heavier bullet. I will try H110, too, and report how both powders work.

Dave Brooks,a shooter at the Topeka Club, is using 14g of H4227 with a 158g Berry bullet. The bullet is a flat nose solid, lead core, with a copper coating(I think). Dave says he never has lost a ram he hit with that load.

Jim Luke

[Tlee]

Glen, thanks for the kind words. I feel the same about you and Jeannie. One of the best aspects of the cowboy silhouette sport is the great people involved in it, and I count you two in that group!

Tim, why is it the lead bullet will consistently knock over the rams with the same load used with jacketed bullets? I suppose it's because the lead flattens out over a larger surface on the animal. I think I'll use 13.6 g of Lil Gun with the 180 grain bullet and see what happens. I was a little apprehensive about using Lil Gun since Hodgdon's data does not show it for rifle use in the.357, especially with the heavier bullet. I will try H110, too, and report how both powders work.

Dave Brooks,a shooter at the Topeka Club, is using 14g of H4227 with a 158g Berry bullet. The bullet is a flat nose solid, lead core, with a copper coating(I think). Dave says he never has lost a ram he hit with that load.

Jim Luke

Jim -

Sorry, I was editing my response describing the lead bullet "spit ball" theory as you were posting your last response.

Concerning LilGun in the rifle... I spoke with 2 different Hodgdon engineers about that very subject. They both assured me that, particularly with LilGun, ANY of the pistol loads listed were perfectly safe in ANY rifle. It was my concern that the longer barrel might cause the pressures to rise much higher than was listed for the pistol. They both assured me that the maximum pressure would not exceed what is already listed for the pistol. They also pointed out that, for similar velocities using the same bullet, that LilGun has maximum pressures that are several thousand pounds less pressure than say H110/W296 and that it is perfectly safe in any rifle.

-Tim

[Tlee]

Jim -

I did try that same Saeco 180gr gas checked bullet with H110/W296 as well. While I could match the groups of the LilGun with it, they were only at the lower velocities. Also, the H110 loads seemed to show some primer flattening, even at the lower end loads. I tried 3 different magnum primers and saw that with each. I did get some good 100yard groups out of H110 load, however they were at velocities that would be falling trans-sonic at about 150 yards. With the velocities of the 13.7gr of LilGun load, the bullet doesn't fall trans-sonic, even at 200 meters. I've yet to see any signs of pressure with it.

-Tim

[JohnHenry]

Tim, thanks for the info you learned from Hodgdon. I saw the pistol loads, but was afraid, like you, they would cause too high pressure in a 24" barrel. Glad the Lil Gun is safe. Thanks again.

Jim

[Tlee]

Tim, thanks for the info you learned from Hodgdon. I saw the pistol loads, but was afraid, like you, they would cause too high pressure in a 24" barrel. Glad the Lil Gun is safe. Thanks again.

Jim

Jim -

Check your inbox, I just sent you more info in a PM about some testing I've done with different 357 bullets on the the Ram.

-Tim

[glen ring]

Jim
I think Tim is right on with using Lil gun in the .357 rifle. I have shoot a LOT of rounds using 2400, 296, and H110, but after doing a little research i think I may try lil gun with a 180 grain bullet. If you don't mind sharing your results I certainly would appreciate any findings. I have a Marlin Cowboy in 357 and I have had mixed results with loading for it. Keep us updated please.
Glen

[glen ring]

Tim
I tried the light loads in my Winchester late yesterday and I think they will become my new chicken load. They didn't hold together for the 100 yard target so I'll keep you informed. If I had an accurate .357 like Jim's and could shoot like him I'd shoot the 357. I'll keep you updated . My 100 yard range is 25 yards from this machine.

[Silo65]

Jim

I've been trying to find a 357 load to reliably take down rams at the Atglen,PA range where the rams are notoriously stubborn. I tried the XTPs with an almost full case of H110 (1565fps by chrony in 24" barrel) and lost 5 out of the 6 I hit. Looking at the hits it was clear to me by the white dots on the black rams that the bullets were breaking up on impact. I went to the Missouri Bullet Co 180 striker with a similar load of H110 (1650fps by chrony) and knocked down all that were hit except the one that even the 45-70 guys couldn't put down. Unfourtunately this load leaded badly as it is PB w/o GC. I'm trying different lubes and loading techinques to see if I can work that out.

Ranch Dog Outdoors has a 195gr GC bullet mold he developed specifically for the Marlin that I may try but I'm not really interested in casting and my Rossi's 1-30 twist may not stabalize a 195. If you try the 195 in your Marlin be sure to read Ranch Dog's OAL notes for the Marlin 357.

Rich

[JohnHenry]

Glen & Tim:

This Saturday morning I went out to the range to test the Hornady 180 bullet, etc. By 8:00 it was already 82 degrees, but there was little wind. The mirage was there, however. Again, the rifle used was a Marlin CB with a 24" .357 magnum barrel.

At 200 yards, shooting a 20X Leupold scope on the bench with a benchrest stand and rear bag, I fired two five shot groups. The Hornady 180g XTP bullet with 13.6g of Lil Gun and CCI small pistol benchrest primers with Starline cases was the load. The groups measured 1 7/8" and 2 1/2".

At 100 yards with the same load, the two groups were 1 1/8" and 1 3/4".

Just to compare, I shot two groups with the 158g Hornady XTP bullet and 7.5g of Unique, which is my load for the pistol caliber matches. They measured 1 1/8" and 1 5/8".

Interestingly, the larger groups were all the second five shot string, which I attribute to a combination of mirage and the barrel heating up.

From this testing, I have to say I'm very satisfied with the accuracy of the 180 g bullet. The recoil is minimal. Now, the big question is if it is an effective load to knock down the rams at 200 yards. That is my next experiment, but I will likely have to travel to the Tappan Hill Gun Club near Salina, Ks. to do that testing. The silhouette range nearby will not allow us to shoot their steel animals except on match day.

As always, your comments are welcome.

Jim Luke

[glen ring]

Jim
That's as good as you could get that thing to shoot? I think you need to just sell that gun and start all over. Since I like you I want to see you get going in the right direction so I'll take that old 357 off your hands!!! Seriously. There are many center fire rifle shooters that would like to get that kind of accuracy out of their bolt guns. That is one darn accurate 357 rifle and coupled with your shooting ability you will do well. That 180 will kill all but the most stubborn of rams. Thank you for sharing the info. And you were right.....That 357 is more accurate than my 30-30.