snaketail2 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:06 pm This should be discussed in Raton. At the competators meeting.
That'll kill it for sure! Nothing modern allowed!

Michael

Any cartridge, rifle, sight or not from the 19th centry (1800s) won't get anyone's attention. Actually, I'm kinda surprised they let us use modern .22lr ammo..
Guess black powder rimfire is hard to find.
M

snaketail2 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:06 pm This should be discussed in Raton. At the competators meeting.
That'll kill it for sure! Nothing modern allowed!

You mean like jacketed bullets and fiber optic front sights? Still wondering why all the angst.

I am farsighted and can't see the front sight very well, sometimes not at all during the winter months when we shoot under the lights at night. That being said I am generally against an official scoped class. Levergun was meant to be simple and affordable though one could argue that a high quality levergun is getting less affordable these days.

I have no issue with an unofficial class at the match directors discretion. We have an unofficial varmint class for smallbore for those who have difficulty standing, newcomers and the little ones. If there is more than one I will even give out prizes for that class. They just don't qualify for grand slams, in-a-row pins and match winner.

On the topic of no lenses in the rear sight, there are other ways to incorporate visual aids without custom prescription glasses.

jbolt,
who made that particular set up? I presume it swings out of the way when not needed. I've found a couple of others similar but that might be a better mousetrap.

BrentD,

Yes it will swing out of the way if needed.

I made this one. Lens and lens frame are from Champions Choice. Holder is from a clip-on loupe for glasses. I had to make the rod and coupler between the lens frame and clip-on holder. The clip-on holders come in 1, 2 or 3 lens configurations. I used a 3 lens holder to get the forward reach needed for the Decot glasses. I plan on adding a second lens with a different diopter so I don't have to switch out the lens depending on barrel length.

Great idea.

I think we are have the right idea, but the incorrect application.

Lever action and small bore silhouette matches are fun, but specialized disciplines and should stay that way. If you want the silhouette scene to blow up, I think you need to make it as accessible as possible to anyone with a .22lr. And this is beyond having a loner gun for a match. How do we get folks with any cheap scoped 22 out to matches to plink steel and grow the sport? If a guy or gal can take their stock 10/22 with a Bushnell 3x9 on it from Walmart out for a few hours and have a good time I think we have a recipe for success.

So how about...
- 2.5 scaled targets.
- Magnification no greater than 4x.
- Open to any .22 in a semi, lever, or bolt action.
- You can protect the sport from gaming by specifying rules in line with say hunter class or small bore cowboy lever action or something akin to Production in USPSA. So things like no bull barrels, no specialized stocks, no specialized clothing, etc.

I would shoot the heck out of a match like this. Thoughts?

Sounds good to me. But I wouldn't worry about magnification personally.

I did a little experiment with this and put a fixed 4X duplex-reticle Leupold scope on my 39A and zeroed it for all the distances. I set up the half-scale targets and shot a match - I shot a 40/40.

Then I shot another match and gave myself only 30 seconds to shoot each bank of 5 targets - I shot another 40/40.

Then I tried a third match with regular time limits but I made myself aim at the leg of the targets - I shot a 37/40 (I called it a 36 because I hit one of the turkeys in the body above the leg instead of in the leg but 37 targets went down).

It's REALLY easy with a scope at half-scale targets. This game would be like IHMSA where the goal is to shoot a perfect score to get into the shootoff with half of the field then shoot the shootoff at chickens set at the ram distances so someone will finally miss.

Dustin

dustinflint wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:27 am I did a little experiment with this and put a fixed 4X duplex-reticle Leupold scope on my 39A and zeroed it for all the distances. I set up the half-scale targets and shot a match - I shot a 40/40.

Then I shot another match and gave myself only 30 seconds to shoot each bank of 5 targets - I shot another 40/40.

Then I tried a third match with regular time limits but I made myself aim at the leg of the targets - I shot a 37/40 (I called it a 36 because I hit one of the turkeys in the body above the leg instead of in the leg but 37 targets went down).

It's REALLY easy with a scope at half-scale targets. This game would be like IHMSA where the goal is to shoot a perfect score to get into the shootoff with half of the field then shoot the shootoff at chickens set at the ram distances so someone will finally miss.

Dustin

I ask for this every time I am in a shoot off... THAT would be fun!

.44 Mag

We are going to have a petition this Saturday at the Ben Avery Lever Gun Match. A lot of shooters here want the rule about lenses in the rear sight reinstated, too.
I think you should start a petition in PA and then send it to Aaron Farmer.
I do not understand the reason this rule was rescinded in the first place. In fact, last year at the competitor dinner for lever gun the rule was brought up and there was overwhelming support for it. I think the NRA is not listening to the shooters.
I have sent an email to Tom King, who's working in the competition division, voicing my viewpoint. He responded that he would take it under advisement, and that he has competed lever gun matches in the past. Here's his email if any of you want to write him: tomkingnra@gmail.com

Don't just complain on Steel Chickens. Write the NRA and express your views.

Very good idea Jim. Sent a PM to you. Mike Haynes

JohnHenry wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:42 pm .44 Mag

We are going to have a petition this Saturday at the Ben Avery Lever Gun Match. A lot of shooters here want the rule about lenses in the rear sight reinstated, too.
I think you should start a petition in PA and then send it to Aaron Farmer.
I do not understand the reason this rule was rescinded in the first place. In fact, last year at the competitor dinner for lever gun the rule was brought up and there was overwhelming support for it. I think the NRA is not listening to the shooters.
I have sent an email to Tom King, who's working in the competition division, voicing my viewpoint. He responded that he would take it under advisement, and that he has competed lever gun matches in the past. Here's his email if any of you want to write him: tomkingnra@gmail.com

Don't just complain on Steel Chickens. Write the NRA and express your views.

Jim,

Until the time the protest was filed challenging the legality of lenses in sights last year at the Nationals, there hadn't been an issue in many years with allowing lenses in rear sights. We haven't been able to locate where it was ever in the RULES. The only allowance of lenses in sights we have been able to locate has been addendums to match programs. The history of the addendum would be an interesting thing to know, since it is in contravention of the rules. Rule 3.1.3 has been in a constant state of change since we began shooting this sport 11 years ago. Jim, if you can find where lenses were ever allowed in the RULES, and the history of the insertion of the addendum in the national match program, it would shed more light on this issue.

Jeanne

G'day All
What are you doing up so early Jeanne?
I can't find it anywhere in the rulebook either.
3.1.3,a. Rear sights may be open,receiver, or tang sights, mounted as originally intended. No extended mounts are permitted.....
As you read on, nowhere does it include lenses in the rear sight.
It does however state in rule 3.18 Equipment-General - All devices and equipment which may facilitate shooting and which are not mentioned in these Rules, or which are contrary to the spirit of the Rules and Regulations are forbidden.
( Could we please not rehash the previous debate where it doesn't say anything about shoes, clothes etc....)
I really think people need to re-read the rule book, especially Rule 3.1.3 and the listed "intent of these rules" and ask themselves if they are playing by those rules.
I'm pretty sure Anschutz diopter sights were never "originally intended" to be mounted on a lever-gun.
The sights and the rifle last year that started a lot of this had not one but two extended mounts on it. Please read 3.1.3.a, again.

If your eyesight is that bad that you can't possibly shoot without a lense in your rear sight, you probably shouldn't be driving either. Do like everyone else does and get a pair of glasses, pretty sure they'll be cheaper than a diopter sight with a custom lense in it. Rant over.

Daniel,
You couldn't have said it better. We do not need another "Race Gun" venue. To my limited knowledge, It started as a Cowboy Lever Action with barrel sights. Now we have progressed to another area where we need specialized sighting tools, etc.
Where does it stop?
I have never shot this sport, but can appreciate what the original intent was. Why now do we need to change it? I have said in the past, if you need to improve your scores, try using more trigger time. As I have said before, others have achieved perfect scores without any new changes in sights. Flame on.....