Proposed rule changes at the competitors meeting in Raton, NM

[GTS]

Tony, No problem. I just wanted to make it perfectly clear to others what I was asking for.

Greg

[BrentD]

I will not advocate for any rule change. However, I don't understand why apertures which are period correct are disallowed, but fiber optics and lenses in sights are not.

I also do not understand the rationale of allowing relining but not rebarreling.

Like I said, I'm not going to support any rule change but I sure do not understand the logic of the current rules either.

Brent

[Tlee]

I think I need to jump in here and clarify a few things. I am the one that brought up the question on barrels. Now everyone needs to pay close attention to this, I DID NOT ASK FOR AFTER MARKET BARRELS!!!

What I requested the committee to address was a simple clarification of the rule, which I feel is a little ambiguous with regard to the barrel. The current description reads "original barrel", which I feel could be interpreted either way. It could mean "the" original barrel, or it could mean "an" original barrel. That was my question! I asked that the committee look at the rule, and add one of those 2 words before the word "barrel". If they decide on "the", then it will clearly mean the barrel original to the rifle. If they decide on "an", then you would be allowed to replace an old worn out barrel with a factory barrel, but not some other after market barrel. That was never my intent, but it seems like people only hear what they want to hear, and in fact, I had a hard time getting Mr. O'Neill to understand my question, who actually suggested to do it anyway because "who would know". Well, I would know.

(snip..............)

Greg -

I'm glad you brought the question up, and like you did, I also got the distinct feeling that Lee absolutely did not understand the difference that "the" or "an" makes in the context of the wording of the rule.

From his "aftermarket barrels already in use on this line" statement he made, I also got the feeling he was taking a "don't ask/don't tell" position, if not openly advocating/promoting their use...

I admire your courage and have respect for you asking the question, however I don't believe the question will be addressed beyond a "leave the rule as-is and let the competitors and match directors interpret it how they want" position.

just my .02,


-Tim

[boats]

Have thought arpeture front should be allowed for some time. However they are not always better depending on you eyesight. I shoot a club singleshot match club rules Rams only hung from chains . And Black Powder Cartridge allows Arpeture. Old guys like me eyesight determines the winner most of the time.

I use post and bead on silhouettes, Club or NRA rule match. depending on how my eyes are working that day may only get a few seconds sharp front sight. Most times set NPA shut eyes open and break the shot right away before it goes fuzzy. Bullseye paper target always use arpeture with much less eye strain . Tried Arps on cardboard painted silhouettes lot of different sizes . Less eye strain for sure but larger group size on target too. Compare two targets Post and Bead vs Arpeture larger group is obvious but no fuzzy front sight high misses either.

Point is Silhouette we are placing the shot on a specific spot on a irregular target. Focus is on the steel and a sharp front sight . Bullseye you can shoot very well with a sharp front and let the target go completely out of focus. Long as the fuzzy ball is centered shot will go center. Silhouettes it's not the same.

Your eyes may be different, mine hit steel targets better with a precise aiming point. Still it ought to be up to the shooter not the rule book.

Boats

[Bob259]

............Right after that discussion Lee said that some unnamed gunsmith that was in attendance at the match had said to him that he had replaced at least 12 rifles that where at the Nationals, meaning he had replaced the barrels with new barrels and put the correct marking and everything to make them look like the original factory barrels.

Thanks for stating it Tony, this has been a KNOWN fact for the last few years now. The eqiuip race has already started in lever rifle, it's just not as flashy. You would think we are shooting for a new Ferrari or a million dollars.

[TURKEYSFEARME]

I'm a bit torn on the rebarreling issue, I have a few I would like to rebarrel, I still wouldn't shoot them in a major match because I doubt they would be able to compete against my current rifles. That said I don't think it would have any major impact on our sport as far as scores go, if you can't hit these huge targets with the factory barrel a kreiger or Shilen isn't going to help, I don't like the idea because I don't want to see an equipment race start. I am against the use of aperture front sights, anybody that has shot silhouettes with them knows they offer a distinct advantage. I read many comments stating that it will allow older shooters with poor eye sight to continue shooting, I've been shooting silhouettes since 1998 in that time I've met many shooters who were in their prime at that time and are now seniors or super seniors, many of them are still great shots but others are struggling, we could relax the rules a bit for them but it still won't address the fact that there are no new shooters taking up silhouette!

[lijeboy]

but it still won't address the fact that there are no new shooters taking up silhouette!

I don't have an opinion worth stating about the aperture front sights or the barrel issue. But I can say that in Oklahoma, we have new shooters every year taking up CLA silhouette. We don't have a huge following, but we started with five regular shooters four or five years ago and have grown to 20-plus. We make our matches fun, which encourages new shooters to come back. Our youngest regular is 16. So for a state with only one range on which to shoot CLA, I'm calling our program a growing success.

[TURKEYSFEARME]

but it still won't address the fact that there are no new shooters taking up silhouette!

I don't have an opinion worth stating about the aperture front sights or the barrel issue. But I can say that in Oklahoma, we have new shooters every year taking up CLA silhouette. We don't have a huge following, but we started with five regular shooters four or five years ago and have grown to 20-plus. We make our matches fun, which encourages new shooters to come back. Our youngest regular is 16. So for a state with only one range on which to shoot CLA, I'm calling our program a growing success.

That's great news! The same isn't true were I live, over the last 4 years I've seen only a hand full of shooters come out to give it a try, no return customers. Match fee is $7 All they have to do is show up and shoot.

[glen ring]

Turkeysfearme

If you were at the nationals you'd have seen us cutting up , telling jokes and having fun.
At The Oklahoma City Gun club we don't allow cranky old farts or drama queens to spoil our fun.

We are attracting new shooters and once they shoot with us they come back.

We have seen how that one problem person can bring down an entire program so we invite them to shoot somewhere else.

I shot IPSC , action pistol and steel events for years so we mix in side matches with ideas from those sports using Lever guns. Jeanne is the best organizer on earth so we compliment each other.

This month's match will be a steel silhouette ISIS dressed Prairie Dog that has taken a Squirrel silhouette hostage and is about to cut his head off. The ISIS Prairie Dog is behind the squirrel so the shooters need to wack the ISIS animal w/o hitting the Hostage animal. Two shooters are shooting at two Prairie Dogs behind the squirrels. The first shooter to eliminate the threat w/o hitting the hostage wins. This is man vs. man for ALL the shooters.

Cheap fun and yes, The ISIS Prairie dogs will have turbans on their head !!!!

[Tlee]

Glen -

2 words...

Pink Flamingos!!!

- Tim

[shooterxtc]

Glen I think he showed up at our match.

[TURKEYSFEARME]

Turkeysfearme

If you were at the nationals you'd have seen us cutting up , telling jokes and having fun.
At The Oklahoma City Gun club we don't allow cranky old farts or drama queens to spoil our fun.

We are attracting new shooters and once they shoot with us they come back.

We have seen how that one problem person can bring down an entire program so we invite them to shoot somewhere else.

I shot IPSC , action pistol and steel events for years so we mix in side matches with ideas from those sports using Lever guns. Jeanne is the best organizer on earth so we compliment each other.

This month's match will be a steel silhouette ISIS dressed Prairie Dog that has taken a Squirrel silhouette hostage and is about to cut his head off. The ISIS Prairie Dog is behind the squirrel so the shooters need to wack the ISIS animal w/o hitting the Hostage animal. Two shooters are shooting at two Prairie Dogs behind the squirrels. The first shooter to eliminate the threat w/o hitting the hostage wins. This is man vs. man for ALL the shooters.

Cheap fun and yes, The ISIS Prairie dogs will have turbans on their head !!!!

We have a good group of regulars that shoot NRA at my club all of them are from other clubs in the state, it's been very tough to get new shooters in the club interested in organized competition, however club matches and fun matches like you are describing do get a good attendance from the membership. I don't know what the answer is I'm just afraid I'm watching the slow death of the silhouette sports.