25-20 for pistol caliber lever silhouette

[stubbicatt]

I located a nice old Marlin in 25-20. I wonder if you folks might have some advice to share re: using this rifle and cartridge for the 100 yard max pistol caliber competitions? I've seen anecdotal comments elsewhere that it is difficult to get the 25-20 to shoot accurately.

Any input is welcome.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Stubb

[twidpa]

I used lead and it worked fine. Rifle is equally accurate as my 32-20 but the reloading components are easier to find for the 32. I would absolutely go to it if the 32-20 breaks and do just as well.
T

[ALPHAWOLF45]

I have always said that the most difficult thing to do in life is make a good decision.. Recently I bought a .25-20 round barrel blank from Green Mountain and milled it to octagon to install it on my old Winchester model 65..But reading and talking to folks about the problems getting .25-20 brass induced me to install a .32-20 barrel on the rifle instead.. I am under the impression that the .25-20 has a small edge in accuracy over the .32-20 but I think I made the right decision for myself. The .25-20 barrel went on the shelf where it will stay until somebody starts making brass again..

[snaketail2]

Check your sources for 25-20 bullets. Lead is easy to find - if you don't mind 8" size groups. Jacketed bullets shoot much better, but the supply is very dry.

Brass - Remington is out of the "component" business and many people are now making them from Starline 32-20 brass.

I'd go with 32-20 for available components.

Actually I went with with .357 an never looked back. As accurate and components are easy to find.

Recoil - not an issue with any of them.

Michael

[Tlee]

AlphaWolf45-

Some 25-20s can be a challenge to get to shoot accurately, primarily due to limited projectile availability, IMO. Best lead projectile loads I've gotten out of my 1894 in 25-20 has been a 3 to 4" group at 100m, and that's testing a good dozen or more loads trying 4 different powders. Can't find any jacketed projectiles, they get bought up quicker than I can get to them.

Whereas, my 32cal has yet to fail to shoot 2" or better groups using a variety of powders and projectiles (Jacketed, Lead, or plated).

-Tim

PS/FYI - Not that I've ever seen it checked/enforced or even agree with it, but rule 3.1.3 (b) on page 7 states: "Barrels must be original or may be relined. Original barrels re-bored to a larger caliber are allowed. "

[boats]

Still working with my new Original Marlin 25/20 and cast have not seen good results yet. In practice smaller a cast bullet is more difficult it is to get good performance. Simple answer is any voids are a larger percentage of bullet weight. Still I expect it will deliver 2 -3 Moa once I get the charge right. Was running them too fast. Next test will be with 6.0 of 4227, every drop in charge has grouped better.

Expectations are modest my other Marlin is a 38/40 and a 3 MOA gun, if the 25/20 does a bit better will be satisfied. Have to consider round forearm iron sight rifle off a rest is going to loose at least 1 MOA compared to a heavy scoped rifle.

25/20 brass is hard to find but easy to form from 32/20

Boats

[ALPHAWOLF45]

Tim
I am glad to hear the .32-20 is an accurate cartridge.
I thought that original barrel rule only pertained to the CLA matches and not pistol caliber.??
Well, if I had to I could build the entire Winchester 92 action and then the Green Mountain barrel would be original to the gun. For .22 I am using a Marlin 1892 that I built entirely , I copied an original 117 year old rifle I inherited from Grand Dad.. And presently I am scratch building a .22 caliber Spencer rifle that I hope to win a few matches with . I am really only in the shooting matches as excuse to build more "toys".
Steven

[Tlee]

Tim
I am glad to hear the .32-20 is an accurate cartridge.
I thought that original barrel rule only pertained to the CLA matches and not pistol caliber.??
(Snip).....

I read subsection B to mean all 3 types of Cowboy rifles. The paragraph before that subsection reads:

"3.1.3 Cowboy Lever Action Silhouette Rifle – Listed below are the three classes of Cowboy Silhouette Rifles. The below listed rules (a - f) apply to all classes of Cowboy Silhouette Rifles."

I've never seen anyone check for a replacement barrel at a match, but it's there in the rules, regardless. Considering the age/vintage & condition of some of the older rifles I'm not sure that it's reasonable to still have that rule in place.

Just my .02,

- Tim

[boats]

You can have a CLA rifle lined. My 38/40 was, meets the rule, and shoots fine. Look what happened to smallbore silhouette when the Hunter class rules were opened up. I was at the meeting at the nationals when the "hot rod" guys lobbied for replacement Barrels One guy claimed factory Remington barrels could not hit Rams. Now Fraken Hunters are the norm to the detriment of the sport. Guy with a off the shelf factory rifle,is at a disadvantage.

CLA is growing with good numbers at matches under strict original rules. Our club relays are full, Smallbore silhouette we have 3 or 4 guys at matches. I saw leave the rules alone.

Boats

[Tlee]

You can have a CLA rifle lined. My 38/40 was, meets the rule, and shoots fine. Look what happened to smallbore silhouette when the Hunter class rules were opened up. I was at the meeting at the nationals when the "hot rod" guys lobbied for replacement Barrels One guy claimed factory Remington barrels could not hit Rams. Now Fraken Hunters are the norm to the detriment of the sport. Guy with a off the shelf factory rifle,is at a disadvantage.

CLA is growing with good numbers at matches under strict original rules. Our club relays are full, Smallbore silhouette we have 3 or 4 guys at matches. I saw leave the rules alone.

Boats

Boats -

Excellent reminder. I quit shooting smallbore rifle about 10 years ago, so it's good have the perspective/reminder of what can happen when you relax the rules too much.

You are correct on the participation. I've seen a steady growth in attendance at my local SBCR/PCCLA match within the past couple years (example; 28 & 33 competitors for a chilly February and a WET March, which were both quite breezy). In our case, it's primarily been families (thankfully). According to what they're telling me, what is attracting them is the reasonable cost of the ammo & guns (lots of Henry's, a few pumps and Marlin/Glenfield 60s), and then the relaxed "just have fun" atmosphere.



- Tim

[ALPHAWOLF45]

Of course it is up to the match director at my home range whether I use this re-barreled Model 65 Winchester.The matches I shoot I see some mighty purty rifles and it seems to me the advantages go heavily to those individuals who can afford to buy the best rifles.. I couldn't justify/afford buying a nice old .32-20 Winchester or Marlin when I could easily convert the Winchester model 65 I already owned from .218 BEE to .32-20...Relining the original .218 BEE Barrel was not a good option because I had already relined it a few years ago and it barely has a box of shells ran thru it.. I may rather put it back on the rifle after I quit shooting these matches.

[boats]

Tim I was match director at our club number of years. Guy would show up with a factory rifle give it a try, miss a lot and never come back. Now Smallbore is very difficult, it's not just the rifle that makes missed targets. But when they see the high tec gunsmithed guns they blame misses on their equipment. Tricked out guns are a negative if you want participation

Boats

[dustinflint]

Look what happened to smallbore silhouette when the Hunter class rules were opened up. I was at the meeting at the nationals when the "hot rod" guys lobbied for replacement Barrels One guy claimed factory Remington barrels could not hit Rams. Now Fraken Hunters are the norm to the detriment of the sport. Guy with a off the shelf factory rifle,is at a disadvantage.

CLA is growing with good numbers at matches under strict original rules. Our club relays are full, Smallbore silhouette we have 3 or 4 guys at matches. I saw leave the rules alone.

Cowboy silhouette is more popular because it's easier to hit huge targets with a lever rifle than it is to hit small targets with a scoped rifle. It doesn't have anything to do with the equipment.

Dustin

[glen ring]

I have had two marlin 25-20s. They both shot/shoot well. I have had good luck with both shooting a Lyman cast GC bullet pushed by Titegroup, HP-38 and even trail boss. The RCBS cowboy bullet not so well a lower velocity. I pushed it faster with a load of 4198 and it's a three inch round at 100 yards. The Lyman bullet is about the same at a lower Velocity. I have formed brass from 32-20 starline following Al Foust's instructions and I lose an occasional round, but after shooting them once they form well. Dustin is right. The targets are large and a 3 inch group at 100 yards will be good enough for most folks. A CLA national Champion heard one of our discussions and told us his guns are only three inch guns, but he can hold three inches at 100 yards.

[boats]

He's right a reliable 3 inch gun will do the job. We read about very small groups on the Internet . Actual pratice long run a 3 MOA iron sight Lever action is a very good shooter

Years ago I won a CBA bench rest match for issue sight Military Carbines with my Krag. 4 x 5 shot groups . I think the measurement was 2 3/8 inch at 100 yards. Internet 3 shot group is one thing 20 shots in 2 3/8 inches short barrel iron sight rifle scored by somebody else, no "called flyers" is another. I don't think I ever shot better.

You could look up Cast Bullet Assocation records for a good measure of potential performance They Run Lever Action Matches.

Boats