25-20 bullets?

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cedestech
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25-20 bullets?

Post by cedestech »

I am assuming I'll have to shoot lead.... jacketed look to be as hard to find as the cases....

Where to get?

:)
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Re: 25-20 bullets?

Post by DownEast John »

Hi, I get mine from Miester Bullets, I don't care for the hard lube they use so I tumble lube in Liq. Alox and dry before loading.
I shoot a old win 92 and they work good. HTH John :D
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Re: 25-20 bullets?

Post by snaketail2 »

I've had the same problem. I wrote to Speer and the answer was not promising for jacketed bullets.

So, I went with Missouri Bullet Co's Cast/Coated bullet.

The Marlin Owners site has a very large thread about reloading 25-20 - seems as the "recommended" powder is 4227 with a Dacron wad to keep the powder in place (position sensitive powder). The #2 powder is 4198 with cast bullets - no wadding needed with 4198.

I have enough 75gr Speer jacketed bullets to last the year, and will go with Missouri Bullet after that. (I don't care for over-power wads, so I'm not sure which powder Ill be using - might be LittleGun...)

Michael

PS: Met a fellow who take Hornady 75gr spitzer bullets and uses a lathe to make 65gr FN bullets - seems like a "hit or miss" procedure (pun intended).
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Re: 25-20 bullets?

Post by w30wcf »

Michael,
A capacity load of 4198 requires a gas checked bullet for the best results.
With plain based 85 gr bullets I have found a capacity load (12 grs) of H322 shoots very well.
Velocity runs around 1600 f.p.s.

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Re: 25-20 bullets?

Post by snaketail2 »

w30wcf wrote:Michael,
A capacity load of 4198 requires a gas checked bullet for the best results.
With plain based 85 gr bullets I have found a capacity load (12 grs) of H322 shoots very well.
Velocity runs around 1600 f.p.s.

w30wcf
What rifle are you using that load in? I always thought anything over 1400fps is prone to leading...but, I haven't tried the coated bullets yet.

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Re: 25-20 bullets?

Post by w30wcf »

My apologies for the delay in responding. Winchester '92 / 1927 vintage
I have found that, depending on the application, slower burning powders will give good accuracy with no leading somewhat above the 1500 f.p.s. rule with a non gas checked bullet.

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Re: 25-20 bullets?

Post by snaketail2 »

Went to the range today. I tested 85r Missouri cast/coated bullets with 4 different powders.
Some I got here, some from Marlin Owners

11gr of 322, with Dacron filler - I can see potential here, but today I got a fairly wide spread at 50 (yes, I know what it does at 50 is not what it will do ay 100...)
12 gr 322 w/o filler - Better, and there is actually "recoil" from the round...makes me feel like its a real gun finally. Accuracy - potentially better with more development.
9.5 gr of 4198 w/o filler - nice accuracy, very close to the results I was getting with 75gr Speer FN bullet.
6.5 gr of 4227 using Dacron filler - man, I did not want this one to be the best. I just hate rolling those Dacron over-power wads and trying to get all the "threads" inside the case before I seat the bullet. But, the darn load shoots very well.

I shot the same loads at 100 yards - thinking this would settle the matter.
11gr of 322 with filler wad - nope, not this one.
12gr of 322 w/o filler - has potential, but not there yet.
9.5gr of 4198 - group was a bit wide...mind you I'm shooting a peep sight at 100 yards from a bench rest at a target in the shadows...I'm really just guessing where to hold.
6.5 of 4227 and Dacron filler - either I guessed better or it shot better, whichever - it was the best. Guess I'll have to get used to poking Dacron in the cases.

Michael
Last edited by snaketail2 on Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 25-20 bullets?

Post by cedestech »

snaketail2 wrote:
6.5 of 4227 and Dacron filler - either I guessed better or it shot better, whichever - it was the best. Guess I'll have to get used to poking Dacron in the cases.

Michael
Why the Dacron? I know the purpose but is it measurably different? I just bought a 25-20 Marlin classic also and found 6gr 4227 under the 85gr Meister to be very accurate right out of the press. I'm not even going to chase other loads. It shot a inch at 50 and 2 inches at 100.
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Re: 25-20 bullets?

Post by snaketail2 »

4227 is position sensitive. The Dacron goes on top of the powder to keep it in place - you can use stuff like dryer lint, or commercially prepared filler. Look at the Marlin Owners web site thread about reloading 25-20. Believe me - I didn't want to stuff Dacron into the cases (I was kinda worried that the stuff might build up in the barrel - but it doesn't seem to have that effect).

Without the wadding my groups were erratic, with it I got more consistent groups.

Some shooters elevate the barrel before shooting - seems like a "hit-or-miss" way to position the powder.

4198 fills the case more and is less position sensitive. The difference I found was about 1/2" at 100 yards - with 4227 being 1/2" better then 4198...can I hold 1/2" different - no. But, mentally I'll know that I have the most accurate load I can make - and personally, I lose more matches to myself than anyone else (if you know what I mean).

I met a fellow at the nationals from Alaska. When it was time to shoot I hear him say, "Lets see who shows up today." I understood completely.

Michael
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Re: 25-20 bullets?

Post by JohnHenry »

Random thoughts. I have an 1894 Marlin with a 26" barrel in 25-20. It was relined, using a TJ liner for a 25-35 that has a 12" twist. Also, the gunsmith used a match chambering reamer. Now you think that combo would shoot.
I tried the 85g coated Missouri bullet with 12g H322 and averaged 3" 10 shot groups at 100 yds. I have shot 4198 and 4227 with the Speer 75g bullet and can't get anything less than 3" groups--usually it is more. I want groups that average 1 1/2" or less from the bench. Is this asking too much from this cartridge? 50 yard groups mean nothing as almost all the loads I tried shot quarter size groups or smaller at that distance. I've thought maybe the match reamer was a mistake. Anybody have suggestions on this little finicky cartridge?

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Re: 25-20 bullets?

Post by cslcAl »

Jim,

I did a little quick research and both Winchester and Marlin use a 1 in 14 twist rate for a 25-20. Winchester uses a 1 in 10 for a 25-35.

Your 1 in 12 may be too fast for the short light 25-20 bullets.

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Re: 25-20 bullets?

Post by Steelbanger »

Remington used to catalog an 86 gr. bullet for the 25-20 and also for the 25-35, This bullet had two cannelures, one for each cartridge. I have no idea whether they still package these bullets or not. Judging by the prices of other bulk packed Remingtons, I figure they must be jacketed with gold!
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Re: 25-20 bullets?

Post by snaketail2 »

Remington has announced that will stop making reloading components.

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Re: 25-20 bullets?

Post by snaketail2 »

Update June, 2016
Speer is shipping 75gr FN bullets again. I got some from both Midway and Graf & Sons...get on the backorder list.

I prefer them to lead - because I really don't like cleaning lead out of the bore and several other reasons.
My competition load is a mild 4198 load with the Speer 75gr FN bullet. Well, it was until I tried Lil Gun.

From a rest the 4198 loads didn't require any elevation change from 40 to 75 meters and only 12 clicks up for 100 meter Rams. It shot 2" groups at 50 yards with open sights - 1/2" group with a scope.

A fellow shooter has been using Lil Gun and suggested 7gr to 7.5gr of powder with the 75r Speer. The point of impact is quite different from 4198, but I think I can keep the same sight settings for Chickens through Turkeys. Shooting from a rest the groups were tighter, in the neighborhood of 1 1/4" with open sights.

The tighter groups doesn't mean I'll shoot better - but It will give me confidence to try to shoot better.

Michael
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Re: 25-20 bullets?

Post by edgehit »

the 25-20 is the perfect PC round. Too bad you can't get reloading components and even worse the barrel twist forces you to push velocity.

I'm buying all the Speer bullets I can find. Lead bullets were a problem. I could get 5 to 10 accurate shots then things went to hell. I suppose it's all the lube fouling the barrel. Why in hell cant a guy shoot an Alox lubed 65 gr lead bullet at 1100 fps from this round? It would be silhouette nirvana! Just enough momentum to take the ram with the report and recoil of a 22.

I was about to try it when some Speer bullets showed up
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