How Fast is TOO fast???

22 Long Rifle ammo is finicky. Tell us all about it here.
Post Reply
still_learning
B Poster
B Poster
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:16 am

How Fast is TOO fast???

Post by still_learning »

Is there an acceptable "speed zone" for .22 ammo in this sport? OK, I get the hyper velocity vs. standard talking points; but, automatch comes in at 1200 fps, which is comparable in speed to several high velocity brands. So, is this really about the marketing on the box of ammo that causes potential ammo compliance problems, apart for the obvious hyper velosity stuff?

Thanks,
Michael
User avatar
Innocent
Uber Master Poster
Uber Master Poster
Posts: 5675
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:28 am
Location: Merritt Island

Re: How Fast is TOO fast???

Post by Innocent »

Too fast is ammo that damages the targets. In my 33+ years I have seen that most ammo above 1100fps will damage the targets in .22 caliber, rather qucikly.

Mary
Proud member of SNOSS. I earned mine!
Proud member of IBDF Club...

Guilty until proven Innocent by the press.
still_learning
B Poster
B Poster
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:16 am

Re: How Fast is TOO fast???

Post by still_learning »

That helps. 1100 fps...looks like I maybe swapping out my um1 and fiocchi 340 for some slower stuff at the club's next flea market. But then again, I like testing ammo. Thanks. Michael
User avatar
silhouette13
AA Poster
AA Poster
Posts: 489
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:08 pm
Location: Amherst NH

Re: How Fast is TOO fast???

Post by silhouette13 »

i wouldnt rush to swap out, depending on your barrel lenght you may not be getting 1200fps anyways, besides our very own steelchickens site list standard vel as 1050-1250 so you are right in there. accuracy is the primary reason for not going faster than 1100 or so, due to dropping through the transonic barrier about turkey distance give or take.

auto match is a fine and ,for now, rasonable priced ammon, if it shoots for you. i have a swinger chicken made of fairly soft steel, it does look dimples like a golf ball but it has 1000's of hits.

if it shoots weel, keep shooting it.

dave
Sako Finnfire /weaver v16 tk lee 3/8 dot
Hoyt
Truball
Easton
User avatar
Jason
Uber Master Poster
Uber Master Poster
Posts: 3002
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:36 pm
Location: Snohomish, WA

Re: How Fast is TOO fast???

Post by Jason »

Sorry, standard velocity definitely does not include ammo going 1250fps, nor even 1150 fps. If it's supersonic, it's high velocity. If it's above 1300fps, it's hyper velocity. Most ranges allow standard and high velocity ammo to be used in smallbore silhouette matches, even if they slightly frown on high velocity in places where their targets tend to get damaged sooner with high velocity. There are places that specifically allow only standard velocity. Check with the match directory before the match (via email or phone) so you don't show up at a match with ammo that won't be allowed.
User avatar
silhouette13
AA Poster
AA Poster
Posts: 489
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:08 pm
Location: Amherst NH

Re: How Fast is TOO fast???

Post by silhouette13 »

i said the steel chickens site had std listed up to 1250 fps. still learning, you are about to be exposed to some standard velocity opinionatededness that is pretty coomon on this site.

first...the rule book excludes the use of "stinger loads". not HV but is does allow a match director to ban what they believe is damaging. as mentioned by jason.

t22 winchester a fairly widly used target ammo on the lower end is listed at 1135- illegal? rediculous
cci select competition is 1200 should that be illgal?
eley is around 1085 out of a test barrel, match ammo designed for olympic stale match rifles is probably tested in match rifles out of a 7" shorter barrel will maybe get you 15fps or more...should that be illegal?
fed gold medal match 719 1200fps
aguila golden eagle target 40gr that steelchicken posters were discussing from the CMP is listed at 1100fps
holy crap CCI silhouette "designed" for this sport 1235fps
fiocchi has at least 2 offerings of supper match ammo a touch over supersonic.

accurate reloading has a rimfire velocity test on line. very interesting reading an anchutz 1808 shot fed god metal 40 or so fps faster thana 452 cz....pushing it supersonic.

bottom line is if you dont hear a supersonic crack when the trigger goes off you are most likely not causing damage


i say, new guys should shoot what shoots good at a price they can afford, providing no damage is occuring. this sport turns alot of people off due to cost of the high end of it. lets welcome all, set the hook create some addicts, then as they progress,so on and so on. every one will be shooting sub sonic anyways
jason is corrct if you have questions call first. auto match should be welcomed everywhere
Sako Finnfire /weaver v16 tk lee 3/8 dot
Hoyt
Truball
Easton
User avatar
silhouette13
AA Poster
AA Poster
Posts: 489
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:08 pm
Location: Amherst NH

Re: How Fast is TOO fast???

Post by silhouette13 »

BTW i shoots cz 452 with automatch, i have no where near the silo experiance of most of the other posters but started shooting competitive rimfire position 25years ago.i am also a nerd that researches everything.

a published velocity is seldom what you will get out of your gun. altitude,humidity chamber and barrel deminsions all effect speed. dont get to hung up on numbers.

the reason i shoot automatch is because the ammo's my rifle like is 5 times the price.

best to you

dave
Sako Finnfire /weaver v16 tk lee 3/8 dot
Hoyt
Truball
Easton
User avatar
Jason
Uber Master Poster
Uber Master Poster
Posts: 3002
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:36 pm
Location: Snohomish, WA

Re: How Fast is TOO fast???

Post by Jason »

As mentioned, don't get the target "match" and "standard velocity" confused. The term "match" is very loosely used to describe ammo that is supposedly more accurate so that they can charge more for it. How accurate the "match" ammo is varies greatly by manufacturer. As an example, the Federal Automatch shoots at approximately 1215fps out of one of my guns. One shot from this ammo on the head or tail of one of my 1/4" thick chickens will bend it enough to notice when picking it up. I can shoot my Eley ammo at approximately 1065fps all day at the targets without bending them.
Jerry G
Uber Master Poster
Uber Master Poster
Posts: 2746
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:34 pm
Location: Casa Grande, AZ

Re: How Fast is TOO fast???

Post by Jerry G »

Out of my heavy gun:
Eley Practice - 1079
Eley Pistol - 1102 box said 1053
Eley Club - 1093 Box said 1092
Eley Biathalon - 1077
Eley Match - 1099
Lapua Standard - 1074

I don't explain them, I just tell them but to me too fast is over 1200.
still_learning
B Poster
B Poster
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:16 am

Re: How Fast is TOO fast???

Post by still_learning »

Thank you for the input. Ok. I think I will use up my >1100 fps stuff on the reduced 25 yard paper silhouette targets for practice and save my <1100 fps ammo for the metal tgts. Thanks again. Michael
slickab
B Poster
B Poster
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:34 am

Re: How Fast is TOO fast???

Post by slickab »

still_learning,
So am I. How does the Fiocchi 340 shoot/group ?
I just ordered some for the first time to try out.
Thanks
User avatar
Sherlok
Unclassified Poster
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:31 pm
Location: East Texas
Contact:

Re: How Fast is TOO fast???

Post by Sherlok »

This summer I had to hurriedly design a qualification course for 12 hunters to harvest deer in an over populated fenced-in 1700 acre community. I set up four stations using pre-sighted .22 bolt action rifles, one for chickens, another for pigs, etc. I bought a set of standard cut out steel targets. Because cost and availability was a factor I settled upon Federal Lightning from Walmart and set the targets 10 meters closer than standard. This meant the chickens were only 30 meters distant with ammo at 1240 fps. The cut-out chickens did not hold up very well so early-on during the program they were replaced with thicker cast ones. Had I know about them, I would have ordered the whole set out of cast material.

We have fired over 5,000 rounds (yes, a lot missed) at the targets and other than the first batch of chickens there is no noticeable damage to the targets.

Since virtually all cheap practice ammo is HV, the sport needs to adapt to it.

Sherlok
Post Reply