Recommended 6.5mm ram bullet

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ter
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Recommended 6.5mm ram bullet

Post by ter » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:45 pm

Local shop has a sale this weekend on reloading supplies. I was thinking of getting some 142 Amax bullets. Is that the ticket in Hornady?

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Re: Recommended 6.5mm ram bullet

Post by Dee » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:01 pm

I don't know that I would use the Amax ballistic tips on Rams. I love to use them on CPT in 123gr along with 123 SMK but for Rams in 6.5 I stick with the 142 SMK or the 139 Lapua Scenars. I base this simply on the fact that we tried shooting the rams in Zwolle which are infamous for ringers of most all calibers and the 123gr Amax were just exploding on the face and we couldn't knock them over. Meanwhile a .250 Savage shooting 120gr jacketed lead hunting bullets took most that made contact. I just don't think they are tough enough to be dependable on the Rams. Some ranges may vary as to how easy the rams fall but if they are extra large and set hard with a wind from the backside they can be tough.

We use 142 SMK with 39gr H4350 for our ram rounds and they shoot great in 3 rifles. Thats in a 6.5x47L btw.

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Re: Recommended 6.5mm ram bullet

Post by cslcAl » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:56 pm

Terry, Check out the new design of the 6.5 142 Sierra MatchKings. They now have a closed tip.

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Re: Recommended 6.5mm ram bullet

Post by jask » Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:17 pm

I was shooting some 7mm match kings and got a few ringers. When they rang the rams, they seemed to explode on contact and I got a much larger spot on the ram with spokes going outward.

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Re: Recommended 6.5mm ram bullet

Post by yankee » Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:19 am

jask The theory of the large splash vs the spot on the ram when you ring them is that the bullet came apart mainly because it was going to fast or hit at an angle and not straight onto the target. We have seen this on 308, and even the 7mm and 6.5 to a lesser extent.
Back in the late 80's when I started playing with the 6.5 mm bullets I learned quite a few things. With much experimenting and shooting on rams I came up with the idea that you needed at least 2700 muzzle velocity to reliably take down rams. This with the 140 sierra match king and the ones that did not go down were either a pock mark or a splash and hit low center that meaning to me that I was just on the edge of the break up point of the bullet. I have lowered that number to 2500 to 2600 with the idea being that I wanted the bullet to push the target over. The best 6.5 bullet for taking down rams with none ever lost is the 160 hornady hunting bullet if I hit them. The ballistics on this bullet are so bad that the best I could get was about a 20 inch group at rams but they hit like a sledge hammer.
Over the early part of my silhouette career I shot a 308 with 168, 180, and 190 match kings and lost a bunch of rams with the splash. Looking at old loads this was done with 39 to 41 grains of 4064 and they thumped. The first year I shot the 6.5 I hit 96 rams and took 93 down I guess that is why I am still shooting it, but a bit slower. Don't forget the match kings are not made for shooting steel. Some have even tried heat treating the bullet to make the lead harder.

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Re: Recommended 6.5mm ram bullet

Post by Jerry G » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:20 am

I do think that velocity is NOT your answer to knocking down rams. I agree with Yankee, the bullets just come apart without a good transfer of the energy.

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Re: Recommended 6.5mm ram bullet

Post by Grizz61 » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:49 am

I fully agree with the last 2 post. The secret is matching the bullet performance (construction) to the velocity in which it impacts the target. Shoot a match bullet to hard and it shatters without delivering its energy into the Target (Steel). I lost a few Rams last year at nationals with 6.5 mm 140 Nosler Competition bullets doing just under 2800. Left beautiful 4 to 6 inch diameter mark in the heart of the ram, and they stood. I had figured before the faster the better. Now not so much. I have experienced this before in Cowboy and Pistol silhouette shooting cast bullets. Cast them hard to cut down on lead and they shatter and do not drive any energy into the target.

That all being said I still shoot a 260 Rem as my primary silhouette rifle, but am still trying to find the perfect recipe for Rams. That hold true across the board from Pistol, Cowboy and Scoped silhouette. I suspect as I go along I may find that Rams truly will require using a little less (traditionally) accurate bullet, like a Hunting bullet, Sierra Game Kings, that is constructed more for punching through flesh and bone. Than the traditional Match bullet, that is constructed to fly straight and punch through paper. To that end I am experimentally this year with 160 Game Kings in my new 7-08, would love to try some Hornady 6.5 160 but have yet to locate any. I am going to work with SSTs because I have had good success with them hunting, and they have also proven to shoot well in my guns.

I am very interested is hearing others opinions and finding. This a tough subject to pin down, because someday they all fall, and other they do not. about the time you think you have it figured out you will go to a macth and ring One (and hopefully not a few).

the info here and dialog is good keep it coming, maybe together we can get a better grip all around.
Grizz

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Re: Recommended 6.5mm ram bullet

Post by Bigfoot » Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:29 pm

I had great luck with the 140 amax but I'm not pushing them out of a 260 rem. When I was using them in my bobcat (250 savage necked to 6.5mm) with 33gr of 2520 they performed rather well at around 2600fps. Nice low recoil and small impact marks on target. This was paired with 95gr vmax of CPT.

I switched to the lapua 139 scennar due to lack of availability and now shoot those with 34gr of n150 again will great luck. As long as your not loading screamer velocity the amax's should do great for you and at a pretty good price comparatively speaking.

On those really cold or wet days when wind is behind the targets nothing is going to be 100% but for what it's worth if you can get some at a great price go for it.
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Re: Recommended 6.5mm ram bullet

Post by jask » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:43 pm

I know very little about bullets. Can someone explain the characteristics that would make a bullet hang together better rather than "explode" on the animal. I've seen this in some Sierra match kings that left "spokes" radiating from the hit.

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Re: Recommended 6.5mm ram bullet

Post by Jerry G » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:21 am

I think it is the high velocity and thin jackets. I use the 142 MatchKings at about 2650 fps and haven't had any problems with the bullets. My shaking body is another story. :ymdevil:

ter
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Re: Recommended 6.5mm ram bullet

Post by ter » Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:56 am

I wanted to get Hornady because with 3 boxes of bullets you get a FREE orange beanie for hunting with the cool Hornady patch. So I bought a box of 500 140Amax, and 2 100 boxes of 123 or 129. And yes now I have a new hunting hat. They also had Varget for 162/8 pounds, and Unique in stock. So I also picked up that stuff. I really just wanted to know if Amax was a legitimate design for rams. For the other animals I bought 1000 Lapua 108s. I do appreciate the replies, and I think I won't load them to max to prevent splattering.

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Re: Recommended 6.5mm ram bullet

Post by Jerry G » Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:11 am

There are a bunch of people using the 140 A-Max so they must work OK. Varget is a great powder for the 6.5.

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Re: Recommended 6.5mm ram bullet

Post by DennisC » Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:33 am

ter wrote:I wanted to get Hornady because with 3 boxes of bullets you get a FREE orange beanie for hunting with the cool Hornady patch. So I bought a box of 500 140Amax, and 2 100 boxes of 123 or 129. And yes now I have a new hunting hat. They also had Varget for 162/8 pounds, and Unique in stock. So I also picked up that stuff. I really just wanted to know if Amax was a legitimate design for rams. For the other animals I bought 1000 Lapua 108s. I do appreciate the replies, and I think I won't load them to max to prevent splattering.
I think you're on to it by loading them down a tad. I'm not a 6.5 fan (can't afford the upgrade...) but I did spot for a pretty good shooter for few seasons who experimented with lots of variables. One of them 260 with 140amax. Raton on typical breezy day he was grouping .5moa so I'd say (and knowing him) they weren't no reduced loads. Rams on the other hand, some of em didn't wiggle. High hits, butt/nk hits still went but slow...he was hitting 9 or 10 though every time he came to the line. Hey, the more you hit, the more you gonna ring....the amax sure won't hinder your hitting em!! I'm a huge fan of the 162s in the 708

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Re: Recommended 6.5mm ram bullet

Post by DanDeMan » Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:09 pm

jask wrote:I know very little about bullets. Can someone explain the characteristics that would make a bullet hang together better rather than "explode" on the animal. I've seen this in some Sierra match kings that left "spokes" radiating from the hit.
jask,

A tough bullet has a thick jacket and more antimony in the core. I discovered this deal back in '82 whilst shooting IHMSA pistol silhouette, down Fla way. All of the top shooters were shooting 7mm and 308's in the IHMSA (22-250 parent case) and standard 7-08 and 308 chamberings. They would still ring rams and suffer horrible recoil, that kept their orthopedic surgeons in business. Serendipitously through observation and lots of head scratching, because none of this made sense on the surface, I won't bore you with the detail, I came to the conclusion, as a wannabe scientist and actual engineer, that bullet toughness was a big, big deal. To cut to the chase, after some pondering and experimentation, I tested all the heavy 7mm bullets out there at that time, early 80's, for how tough they were by building a ballistic pendulum that smashed them into a steel plate. The Nosler 162 Bevel-base was the toughest son-of-a-gun out there. I'm a bit of a "nose-tweeker," so disproving received wisdom is extra fun for me. My 7mm TCU with a 15" barrel never, never lost a ram. At first the guys were laughing their collective ass of at me for having a pistol built with such a wimpy cartridge for pistol silhouette. You know, real men shoot pistols that destroy their shoulders. After the rams during the first match, the match director, who set rams, came striding over to me and screamed that I was damaging the rams. I calmly pulled out a ram round and showed it to him. That 7mm TCU round got him to stuttering with eyes looking mighty funny. See how much fun that was. I never lost a ram with that pistol. The only person that knew what was going on was my shooten pard. He cleaned the targets often, once he kicked his 7-08 to the proverbial curb.
Cheers,

Dan Theodore

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Re: Recommended 6.5mm ram bullet

Post by cslcAl » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:02 pm

Hey Dan , Ramemtum it is. Oh, I'm in San Fran and will be at Sunnyvale Wed night shooting the SB Cowboy match.

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