Best factory gun for Highpower silhouette

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Re: Best factory gun for Highpower silhouette

Post by Snake »

I know those 'cheap' brass remarks are based upon nothing but raw opinion. I have used all manner of brass in high power, 600 yard bench rest, f-class and silhouette. I sort brass for the bench rest and f class. Proper prep is much more important that the brand. Annealed and sorted Winchester and Rem brass shoots with sorted Lapua..no difference. In fact if one anneals and fireforms I defy anyone to demonstrate any appreciable superiority in accuracy attributable to Lapua vs so called cheap brass. Annealed brass lasts longer....Lapua is annealed...the others are not. I agree with Trent (yikes) ,,,the other comments were rash and indefensible
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Re: Best factory gun for Highpower silhouette

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Jim Beckley wrote:Trent, Was someone playing Dentist, poking, proding and hit a nerve with ya?
Somebody may have pissed in my Cheerios. Maybe all this rainy weather is getting to me. ;)
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Re: Best factory gun for Highpower silhouette

Post by Trent »

jask wrote:Trent, If anyone wants accuracy, they just shouldn't be messing around with cheap brass. How much does good brass really cost you?

bullets, primers, and powder are the bulk of the cost. That's a lot of money spent shooting for just a 100 rounds. I can take 300 pieces of brass and wear out a barrel. I never shot heavy loads and with just neck sizing, I could use them at least a dozen times. So, do the math. Unless you buy seconds, you spend at least $30 on bullets alone for 100 rounds. Now tell me someone cant spend $5 bucks on quality brass for those same 100 rounds over the life of the brass. That''s 5 cents a round for brass compared to about 30 cents just for the bullet. To not buy quality brass when looking at how cheap it really is boggles the mind.

Good brass just gives you the best bang for the buck. If you use cheap brass, you might as well use seconds for bullets also.
So everything other than Lapua is "cheap brass". Got it. If I don't use Lapua brass I should just stay home because Lapua brass is magical and renders all other brass users inaccurate as though they are using 2nds bullets.

Newsflash! There are a considerable amount of people on this site that use 2nds bullets for silhouette and regardless of brass choice do very well with them.
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Re: Best factory gun for Highpower silhouette

Post by Trent »

Again, I want to make it clear that I am not anti Lapua. They make great brass and do a lot to support the sport of Metallic Silhouette. It's for that reason that I purchase their products.
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Re: Best factory gun for Highpower silhouette

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I based my comments on the quality of brass on case wall consistency on .308 cases. Norma and Lapua are really consistent with variations of .002 or less. 90% of the brass will sort to .0015 or better. All of the others I have sorted based on case wall are terrible in comparison. Read about banana shaped cases and it explains everything. Unless the readings have no variation, I notch the head with a file marking the thin area. I have found that only three things are really important for reloading accuracy. I load to a tenth of a grain for powder. After I neck size and trim, I neck ream to .002 less than bullet diameter. As you continue to reload a case, the case wall inconsistency always gets more pronounced.

When I fire a cartridge, I always align the notch to the top. I have experimented a great deal with wall consistency. If you take the cartridges and align the notch at 0, 90, 180 and 270 degrees, you get 4 distinct groupings. It is a HUGE factor in accuracy. The neck reaming and powder charge give me consistent bullet to rifling times. I can get 1/2 inch groups at 200 yds with my 7-08 hunter. I have learned how to load a clip so the cartridge notch always comes out of the clip at the 0 degree position or very close. If I randomly vary the notch, the group will double in size to 1 inch. The more pronounced the banana shape, the greater the group size.

I also shot a wildcat made from .300 savage brass. When I sorted the Remington brass, I only got about 10% that were worth shooting.

You can believe what you like but if you want to have accurate loads, you need to use good brass.

I also experimented with bullet sorting and case weight sorting. None made any difference that I could see but the case wall consistency is HUGE.
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Re: Best factory gun for Highpower silhouette

Post by Snake »

I'm sorry but telling me that Lapua brass is better is significantly different from other comments asserting that cheap brass is essentially useless for accuracy. Interestingly I have repeatedly shot 5 shot groups at 600 under 3 inches ....even had a couple at 2.4....Winchester brass in my 7-08 ....the Lapua brass was not any better or worse and hardly worth the effort. Then again I have a tight chamber equivalent to a pressure gun chamber with a fitted neck (.310). My experience with Norma is that its good and uniform but the primer pockets get looser than I like after a couple of firings. I believe the neck and shoulder areas are the critical areas . Neck tension comes next. Lapua brass is superb and lasts the longest and its annealed. That said I don't have 'issues' with so called cheap brass. BTW..300 Savage has too short a neck and nobody has ever made good 300 savage brass, ever.
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Re: Best factory gun for Highpower silhouette

Post by jask »

I actually necked the 300 savage down to a shorter cartridge. I sorted the cases and notched the brass. It was an accurate cartridge. I used it mainly on a reduced 300 yard range but it worked well at 500 meters. I had one run of 9 rams and just nicked the top of the 10th for a miss. Nerves got me.

I took my standard 308 barrel, shortened it and rethreaded. No rechambering involved. Just shortened a set of dies also.
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Re: Best factory gun for Highpower silhouette

Post by Trent »

For anyone interested in some Lapua .308 brass it is on sale at Midway for $65.50 right now. That's a good deal no matter what you think.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/187523 ... box-of-100
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Re: Best factory gun for Highpower silhouette

Post by 765499 »

I'm new here. When you talk about brass wall thickness are you talking about the thickness of the brass wall in the area that holds the bullet? (Neck wall thickness)? Or are you talking about the thickness of the brass wall in the area that holds the gunpowder? If this is the brass wall thickness you are talking about. How do you measure it?
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Re: Best factory gun for Highpower silhouette

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Dustin... =)) =)) =))


Folks, I think the guru is on vacation or something. otherwise he would have posted the pics of his old carbon crusted brass and buckets of seconds bullets.... :ymdevil:
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Re: Best factory gun for Highpower silhouette

Post by Another Dang 9 »

765499 wrote:I'm new here. When you talk about brass wall thickness are you talking about the thickness of the brass wall in the area that holds the bullet? (Neck wall thickness)? Or are you talking about the thickness of the brass wall in the area that holds the gunpowder? If this is the brass wall thickness you are talking about. How do you measure it?
You only measure the neck wall(were it holds the bullet) not down inside of the case wall(were the powder is). You can use either vernier calipers or an anvil mic. Most bullet reloading manuals will have this info at the front of the book. Most silhouette shooters are more concerned with a steady shot than we are with ultra accurate ammo. Not that that isn't important. You have to decide if its worth your time to do the extra effort to load it to an exacting tolerance. Hope this helped.
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Re: Best factory gun for Highpower silhouette

Post by Another Dang 9 »

We got way off topic so I will add this.
The best factory gun is what ever gun you have in hand. :ymhug: \m/ :D
Also buy American! **==
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Re: Best factory gun for Highpower silhouette

Post by jask »

"You only measure the neck wall(were it holds the bullet) not down inside of the case wall(were the powder is)"

That is NOT TRUE. When I refer to case wall thickness, it is about 1/3 of the case length from the head. That is in the heart of where the powder is. Neck wall thickness is taken care of with neck turning and I only turn necks when I first form the case. From that point on I neck ream to .002 less than bullet diameter. Case wall thickness is REALLY important for accurate loads. The higher the case wall variation, the greater the spread of the grouping.
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Re: Best factory gun for Highpower silhouette

Post by jask »

The one I use is made by NECO.

http://www.neconos.com/details.htm

http://www.neconos.com/category/Concent ... t-Gauge-10

For an out of the box rifle, I like the Sako 75 6,5x55. I have been in their factory. They hammer forge their barrels and then stress relieve. The chambering is done with a piloted reamer so you do not get any offset chambers like you do with Remington or other rifles.

I shoot a factory Rem 7-08. When I cerro cast the chamber, it was really close to being on center but some other shooters have not been so lucky. When a pilotless reamer is used, the results are only as good as the lathe setup.
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Re: Best factory gun for Highpower silhouette

Post by kevinbear »

My advice to anyone that asks me this question.
Buy a factory built 700 in 7-08 or 260, put a Leupold 6.5x20 on it, buy Lee dies and Varget, find and load as many pointed 120 or 140 bullets as you can afford, pick up a couple of boxes of heavy matchkings in the caliber you bought, dry fire until your wife/husband or girlfriend/boyfriend thinks you've lost your mind. Shoot matches, lots of matches, sell your golf clubs, it's a stupid game! :-bd
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