Best cartridge for silhouette

[Innocent]

The Colorado record books would never be the same!

Innocent

[Varn]

Trent,
I'm sure others have also kept similar logs of ram loss. My first year shooting HP Hunter rifle I shot a Tikka 6.5x55 with 139 Lapuas at 2710fps. I kept a log of rams hit in matches and practice. I hit in excess of 135 rams and lost two. That percentage puts it on par with anything else on the line. That is why I recommended a loading of 2700fps with a tough 6.5mm 139- 144 gr bullet in my earlier post. Loads in that range have worked equally well for me at Raton, Phoenix, as well as 5 different ranges here in Pa including Ridgway where the Nationals are held. If I remember correctly, Lee O'neill shot a 6.5x55 with great success in Hunter class. I'm sure he used it in Colorado as well.

[Bob Mc Alice]

Varn, Lee still uses his 6.5 x 55's. I do not know what his ram bullet is but he uses a hot load of one of the VV powders. His pricey Lapua brass hits the trash can after only three firings. They wont hold primers anymore.The other day he hit 15 out of 20 rams and lost none. You just cant question this master shooters record.

[Trent]

Varn, I like those percentages. Right on. Then my 2725 to 2750 fps with my 140 Hornady SSTs should be about perfect. Since AZ will be my first match with my 6.5CM I'll have to start keeping a log of my hits/ringers.

3 loadings with Lapua brass and he is trashing it???? Holy crap. He must be pushing 2900fps or so (more?). Bob, do you know if Lee is using 139 Lapua bullets?

[kevinbear]

Back when we had magnum shoots I never lost a ram with my .264 winchester magnum, undoubtly those little 140's can be pushed fast enough to reliably take rams but at what cost? Personally I don't like giving my target rifles a steady diet of hot loads when the same thing can be accomplished by going up a caliber.
10 years from now we'll probably all be shooting the 270-08! The funny part is we'll still be argueing over something...anything, such is life.
Kb

ps; lets argue about something else, I think the 30-06 sucks!

[ajj]

6.5x55, .260, 6.5x47 Lapua will all push 140s fast enough without leaning on the brass. Varn's post is most instructive. Some people who know more than I say there's no advantage to pushing them faster.

I do NOT intend to argue with Lee O'Neill or with the fans of the 7-08 (a fine cartridge.) The 6.5 bullet line just seems (a little bit) better to me for 30 of the 40 animals. I'm convinced a lot of ram ringers are caused by wind. When that's happening, the 7-08 rings them, too. The choice is clear. quod erat demonstrandum.

(Wait, we've done this before, haven't we?)

[kevinbear]

[quote="ajj"]6.5x55, .260, 6.5x47 Lapua will all push 140s fast enough without leaning on the brass. Varn's post is most instructive. Some people who know more than I say there's no advantage to pushing them faster.

I do NOT intend to argue with Lee O'Neill or with the fans of the 7-08 (a fine cartridge.) The 6.5 bullet line just seems (a little bit) better to me for 30 of the 40 animals. I'm convinced a lot of ram ringers are caused by wind. When that's happening, the 7-08 rings them, too. The choice is clear. quod erat demonstrandum.

(Wait, we've done this before, haven't we?)[/quote]



Ram ringers caused by the wind? How does that work, I've never ever rang a ram with with a 162 A-max or a 168 mk from a 7-08.

[ajj]

When the wind is blowing toward the shooter, the ram is a pretty big sail. The wind holds it up. (When it blows hard enough, the ram falls forward.) Happens frequently at some ranges.

[xpilot]

When the wind is blowing toward the shooter, the ram is a pretty big sail. The wind holds it up. (When it blows hard enough, the ram falls forward.) Happens frequently at some ranges.

+1 ..... lots of times here

[kevinbear]

Most of the colorado boys are headed for arizona this weekend, lots of 6.5's and 7's zinging downrange, should be interesting.

[DanDeMan]

Guys,

Ram knockdown is a function of bullet toughness (resistance to splattering too quickly for increased dwell time) and terminal momentum. That being said, we also want to reduce recoil as much as possible as well as have long barrel life. From my experience, no cartridge beats a properly designed chamber in 7BR on rams with bullets launched from an 8-twist barrel. A 177-gr Cauterucio bullet launched to 2,400 fps will perform better on rams then any cartridge out there from a recoil, terminal momentum and bullet toughness perspective. The chamber reamer I designed for Jarad Perry years ago is what I'd pick if wanting the ultimate ram round. And, go 8-twist. The meme about too fast of a twist has been shown by me to be just one more old husband's tale. For example, I have a 6-twist, 6BR that shoots the 95-gr Berger VLD's into tiny, tiny groups as well as the 110 VLD's and the 115 DTAC's. Always ere on the side of at least enough twist for our type of shooting.

Now, for out-to-turkeys, nothing in my experience beats a 6BR launching 105-gr Berger VLD's, out of an 8-twist tube, going about 2,750 fps. Super mild recoil, long barrel life, low wind deflection and parsimonious with powder.

Howsomeever, we can't change rifles during the match; so, in my mind the perfect compromise is a small-capacity, 6.5mm cartridge. For out to turkeys the 107 SMK or 108 Scenar bullets get the job done very well with low recoil. For rams, a tough bullet is called for. Cauterucio made some very-heavy-jacketed bullets using his 141-gr VLD dies for me about 12 years ago. Those things were "smashing" on rams. He also makes a 155-gr VLD in 6.5mm that is also quite "smashing" when hitting steel at 500 meters. But, a proper reamer design is necessary for that long of a bullet. We need very tight freebores in our chambers to allow the light bullets to jump quite a bit and still have great accuracy. From checking-out numerous chamber designs in 6.5mm, years ago, it was obvious why some couldn't get the 107's or 108's to shoot. Their chambers had big, fat freebores. Jumping bullets in that type of chamber does not allow for consistent bullet-to-bore alignment. That is why a number of shooters had to go to the 120 SMK's, which have a lower BC than the 108 Scenars and produced more recoil, a double-negative whammy. The longer bullet shank on the 120 SMK's allowed for the bullets to touch the lands in those sloppy "match" chambers.

Given that Lapua makes the 6.5mm X 47mm I can't think of a better off-the-shelf cartridge to go with. Once again, a proper reamer design is paramount for top performance; super accuracy with the light and heavy bullets. As some of you know, I shot the 6.5TKS for years. But, it is not for the faint-of-heart as it requires quite a bit of brass forming and neck-turning. But, it launches the 108 Scenars to 2,750 fps with just 29.5 grains of N133 and the 141 Cauterucio VLD's to 2,775 fps with 35.0 grains of N150. As you can guess, barrel life is very, very long. I've had barrels with over 8,000 rounds though them that were still capable of sub-1/4 MOA groups all day long with both match loads. The 6.5mm x 47mm Lapua brass is excellent and has more than enough case capacity for HP silhouette. As a matter of fact it is an almost spitting image of a cartridge I developed in the late 90's that I called the 6.5mm USC, no not University of Southern California, but Ultimate Silhouette Cartridge. My version had a bit longer neck than the Lapua case. But, with an appropriately designed chamber for HP Silhouette the 6.5mm x 47mm is one slick round for the game. And, as was already said, optimum bullet selection is paramount.

OK, rant off.

[Bob Mc Alice]

Good info and nice write up, Dan. Keep up the good posting. Glad to have you back here.
Bob M.

[ajj]

Good info and nice write up, Dan. Keep up the good posting. Glad to have you back here.
Bob M.

+1. Here we have "The Man" who has done the serious, long-term experimentation into all matters silhouette.

[Trent]

That was an awesome post DanDeMan. I may have to see how the 108 Scenars and the 107 SMKs perform out of my 6.5 Creedmoor. I have some on my shelf that were gifted to me. Hornady has a new 100gr 6.5 target bullet available. That might be a little light for turkeys if there is substantial wind.

[DanDeMan]

Guys,

Thanks for the kind words. If you keep being so complementary, I just might have to post some of my latest findings.

Trent,

I've got a number of great friends from your neck-of-the-woods. They are in to BPCR silhouette and mid-range at the world-class River Bend Gun Club http://www.rbgc.org/ outside of Dawsonville, GA. Some of them also shoot at the Cherokee Gun Club outside of Gainsville, GA ttp://www.cherokeegunclub.org/HTML7.phtml. Do you shoot at either range? Man, that RB range is one heck of a shooter's wet-dream. I've been going back there for a number of years in October to shoot matches; first in Mississippi, followed by fun and frolic with the Miss-sippy bros, culminating at the Southeastern Regional Championships put on by the one and only Jim Kidwell at the River Bend Range. Jim runs world-class matches where we have world-class fun.