Hunter class

More expensive to feed, but worth it.
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jask
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Hunter class

Post by jask » Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:58 am

I have definitely been away from silhouette shooting far too long. I last competed in 2001 when I moved into a much smaller home with no garage while I was building a new home mostly by myself except when I needed an extra hand for heavy lifting. In the years since, I fractured my back and along the way, lost my ability to hold well.

I did not even know the hunter class rules had been slain around 2006 to remove almost every restriction except needing a tapered barrel and stock to look like a hunting rifle. When I started competing, we just had one class and it was indeed an equipment race right off the bat. Shooters gravitated to the varmint barrels and custom chambers began to be used. David Tubb created the chin gun which created a stir with much discussion while winning several national matches. Marguerite Everheart single handily got rid of the chin guns with a rule change and David Tubb took his marbles and went home. The silhouette committee created the unlimited class to accommodate him but it was soon dropped from lack of participation.

In an attempt to eliminate the equipment race, a hunter class was created where only factory rifles could be used and any replaced components had to be similar to the original. That was the state of silhouette shooting in 2000. After reading some more on recent history, I realized I was way off base in some recent posts. The hunter situation totally changed in 2006. It also became an equipment race.

I have been thinking about this for several days and realized what happened. Anyone who competes and has the disposable money, will in fact pay to increase scores. I know that for a fact because I did it. Those who say you can compete against yourself are just kidding themselves. Very few if any could possibly even do that. While I was competing, the equipment race was turning away new shooters so where did they go? Lever action where the rules demanded one style of rifle, no scopes and larger targets.

I was one of those who was adamant that the hunter rules was the only way to go. Others including Dave Imus had similar thoughts about the sport but the hunter class did not solve the problem. New shooters still didn't come out. What happened? It was still an equipment race, not by the customizing but by the manufactures. New more accurate hunter rifles soon came on the market. Sako's were great and Anschutz had a .22 made for the market. I took a tour of the Sako factory in 1998 and they were for sure building precision rifles. All chambering was done by hand. There were no off center chambers in those rifles. I bought the Anschutz so I am totally guilty in the equipment race. From what I read, the NRA may have in fact been threatened with a lawsuit about the hunter rules so they caved in 2006 to what we have today, a wide open equipment race.

When I get my shop set up, I am going to do some reloading and shoot again and stop moaning about why the sport is dying. I helped put the sport where it is today and I cannot deny that. Here in San Diego, I am just going to have to travel about 5-7 hours to shoot since all the close matches have gone away. I plan to shoot my factory 7-08 Remington in both classes. Now I have to talk my wife into shooting with me.

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Re: Hunter class

Post by dhatch » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:44 am

I'm gonna pray for you.
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Re: Hunter class

Post by atomicbrh » Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:29 am

I look at the rules and technology from a different perspective.
The Silhouette rifle rules have not changed since 2006 except for a few minor clarifications of the rules.
Rules stability is one of the great things about NRA Silhouette.
There is NO equipment race in silhouette. Put a good action and barrel in a Wooster, Pharr, or Merrier stock and your done buying equipment for the rest of your life. Buying one time is not an equipment race.
I come from the motor racing world. In racing, spur of the moment rule changes by the sanctioning body may cost you thousands of dollars in parts and many labor hours in research and development just to comply enough to get on the track much less win a race.
We have it good in silhouette compared to other sports.

jask
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Re: Hunter class

Post by jask » Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:38 am

talk about rule changes, NASCAR has to be the king of that.

jask
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Re: Hunter class

Post by jask » Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:46 am

My HP match got closed from under me in San Diego and West End has shut both .22 and HP. Both of them do Cowboy. Does anyone know if Mitch still runs a HP match in Ojai Valley or if Cholla still has a match in Yuma? There are no NRA listings for them.

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Re: Hunter class

Post by jask » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:01 pm

Does anyone have a successful format for getting kids interested in shooting sports? I know it is an uphill battle because schools today are very liberal and anti gun. I went to my 50 year class reunion and we each prepared a brief history of what we did after graduation. One girl in my class stated that after graduating from college, she and her boyfriend went to Australia on a "whim". Well, that was easy to figure out, he was dodging the draft. They returned 6 years later, that's obvious too. Carter gave them amnesty. They were both career teachers with her husband getting a fake Dr of Education degree and hired as a school administrator. While I was flying missions over North Vietnam, they were basking on the beach in Australia. Our entire education system is filled with liberals.

A friend of mine from college retired from the Navy on a farm in Missouri. He was a swift boat captain with two purple hearts and a silver star. He has started a shooting sports program in the 4H with Archery, rifles and shotguns. Anyway, what programs do others have going?

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Re: Hunter class

Post by Doodaddy » Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:37 am

jask wrote:
Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:01 pm
Does anyone have a successful format for getting kids interested in shooting sports? I know it is an uphill battle because schools today are very liberal and anti gun. I went to my 50 year class reunion and we each prepared a brief history of what we did after graduation. One girl in my class stated that after graduating from college, she and her boyfriend went to Australia on a "whim". Well, that was easy to figure out, he was dodging the draft. They returned 6 years later, that's obvious too. Carter gave them amnesty. They were both career teachers with her husband getting a fake Dr of Education degree and hired as a school administrator. While I was flying missions over North Vietnam, they were basking on the beach in Australia. Our entire education system is filled with liberals.

A friend of mine from college retired from the Navy on a farm in Missouri. He was a swift boat captain with two purple hearts and a silver star. He has started a shooting sports program in the 4H with Archery, rifles and shotguns. Anyway, what programs do others have going?
That's a subject often brought up, but I haven't seen any tried and trued method be consistently successful. 4H is a big feeder into the sport around here. Some use kids as target setters and then entice them to participate. There's an active discussion on another site about dwindling participation in benchrest so it's not exclusive to us.

There are other shooting sports growing so I don't think it's an impossible task. I just have no idea how.
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Re: Hunter class

Post by glen ring » Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:38 pm

:-bd :-bd
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Re: Hunter class

Post by TriggerBreak » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:42 pm

Observations from a new smallbore shooter...I've been at this since April 2017. So, I have not been around long enough to go through the rule changes mentioned previously. I can say though that I have heard about them and more often than not, the changes are viewed negatively. Just a couple weeks ago, I overheard a seasoned veteran talking about it at Ridgway with a club member who came out to watch some of the national smallbore matches. I can't recall the comments exactly, but it was centering around the trigger and allowing a 2 stage which is not a hunter gun. But, I am sure there are reasons that folks have to justify the rule changes. I shoot my CZ 455 American essentially as it came from mfg. The only adjustments made were to the trigger using their adjusting nut to lighten the pull to 2lbs. 8oz. After getting it to pass inspections at nationals this year, I am going to take a few more ounces out of it.

Do I think the equipment has something to do with the declining numbers. Yes, I do and this forum is part of the problem. I've seen posted many times that anything other than a custom gun or Anschutz with the most expensive ammo will keep you from getting to Master class. Which could be true. But, those conversations turn off most new comers because they start researching those items and are immediately turned off due to $,$$$.$$ Previous poster is somewhat correct about people not competing against themselves. I cannot agree with it 100% because at the moment I am competing against myself to get better each time I go out. Mostly because I am an A shooter working towards AA...

I do believe a MAJOR problem is awareness of the sport. Most folks do not even know this exists, I've talked to only one guy at the club I belong to who has heard of it. I had a relative try to get me started about 30 years ago so I knew about it. However, I live in a state that does not have a single NRA approved or sanctioned match. It was not easy finding a match to get started. I had to learn about Shooting Sports USA, then I had to look at their PDF and then I had to send emails to complete stranger to find out match information, where it was located, etc. For me, this was just the hurdles to clear. For others they would be non starters. I am utterly shocked though at how "antiquated" the competitive shooting world is at large. With all the technology we have in our pockets everyday, we still use a PDF and email addresses to find match locations? Seriously?????

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Re: Hunter class

Post by jask » Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:58 pm

Thanks for the post "trigger break". Nothing is ever going to change to bring back "old rules" so we live with what there is. IMO, it would be a point of pride to be shooting a factory rifle.

As for your trigger, either get a weight to test your trigger or find someone to help you adjust. At matches where I have been the weight checker, put the barrel as close to vertical as it can get and gently lower the weight on the lowest point of the trigger curvature. If it is a good trigger, you can get it close to 2lb and consistently not activate the trigger. I don't know how most people do their trigger squeeze on a hunter but once I get the sight picture of the animal, I preload the trigger to over 1 lb of pull. With practice, you can get real close to the 2 lb mark and just have a very light trigger pull when you fire. That worked well for me. Happy to see you shooting and enjoying it.

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Re: Hunter class

Post by Bob Mc Alice » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:36 pm

There were a few all stock hunter guns on the line last week. This Tikka for example. With that barrel parallel with the ground slope, looks like Al is lining up on one of them low land chickens. :) Google Earth satellite imaging says the chickens are about 80 feet below the firing line. My triggernomitry is rusty. What is the downward angle?

Whittington chickens are 25 feet below the firing line.

Image
Last edited by Bob Mc Alice on Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

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DavidABQ
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Re: Hunter class

Post by DavidABQ » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:49 pm

It works out to be approximately 0.124 radians or 7degrees, 7minutes and 48 seconds. :mrgreen:

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Re: Hunter class

Post by cslcAl » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:58 pm

Bob, your camera must have a really fast shutter speed. You can't even see my barrel doing its figure 8's.

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Re: Hunter class

Post by Bob Mc Alice » Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:31 pm

Image



Al, I had to photochop out all that wild barrel waiving. :D

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