National Championship Survey

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cslcAl
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National Championship Survey

Post by cslcAl »

Shooters,
You may or may not have heard that the NRA has committed to holding all the Silhouette National Championships in Raton till at least 2023. Many of us feel that this will be detrimental to the future of our sport. If you too are concerned please fill out the attached survey.

Thanks,
Al Foust

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/LDJBXF5
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SteveD
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Re: National Championship Survey

Post by SteveD »

I don't have a horse in the race. I have not ever shot in the Nationals and it is unlikely that I will shoot in the Nationals in the foreseeable future so I just don't understand the situation.

Could elaborate on how "this will be detrimental to the future of our sport."
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Re: National Championship Survey

Post by cslcAl »

Steve, here's how it works. The Number of competitors at Raton have been on the decline for years. If the number falls below 50 the NRA will not support the matches anymore. There hasn't been a Pistol Nationals for the last few years. The same will happen to SB and HP.

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xswanted
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Re: National Championship Survey

Post by xswanted »

Are there only two possible locations?

Reading the survey it sounds the national shoot rotates to two locations.

Is it possible, if overturned for Raton, that this shoot could be rotated to clubs throughout the US?
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Ferret Master
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Re: National Championship Survey

Post by Ferret Master »

As it stands now there are only two ranges that will support the nationals that will support the nationals, Ridgway and Raton. As I understand it the hosting range needs 10 banks of all animals both smallbore and HP. The alternating system has been working well for almost 40 years. Why break something that is working well. Al is correct I believe that Dennis Willing is trying to do to Rifle Silhouette what it has already done to Hunters Pistol.

I sent this letter out to all my shooting friends today, may give more info:
To All
For the last 40 years the High Power and Smallbore Silhouette National Championships have be for the most part rotated between Ridgway PA and Raton NM . This allowed more than double the participation that would have been possible had they been held in just one location. In most years the participation at Ridgway is way above that of Raton. Last year the participation at Ridgway for HP was 83 shooters and this year at Raton it was 53. Dennis Willing the manager of the NRA Competitive shooting department has made the decision to keep the National Silhouette Championships at the Raton location only until at least 2023. This was done in a Vacuum with out input from the Silhouette Community. Why try and fix something that is and has been working well for 40 years?

One of the most ominous aspects of this decision is that the NRA was able to cancel the Hunters Pistol National Championships by stating that we had to have at least 50 competitors in order to have a National Championship. Participation at Raton is almost at that point now and I fear that this slap in the face to the silhouette community will drop the participation to below the magic number allowing the NRA to do away the High Power and Smallbore National Championships as they have the Hunters Pistol Nationals

I believe that the folks that shoot this match should have been consulted before this decision was made. We are the customers in this case. The new Silhouette Program manager, Barry Ranney is not a silhouette shooter and neither is Dennis Willing the department manager. I do not feel that they have a good handle on the pulse of the silhouette community.

The Ridgway Rifle Club is the only location in the country besides Raton NM that has facilities for both the Smallbore Nationals and the High Power Nationals to be held at the same location back to back. This makes it possible le for a competitor to take just one weeks vacation and shoot both nationals. My family has been shooting at Ridgway for better than 30 years and has always found the club and the town of Ridgway to be a first class act and a family friendly environment. They have great ranges, great facilities and great people. The do everything possible to make sure that you have a memorable and fun experience during the nationals. Here are a couple of links if you want more info on Ridgway Rifle Club.

http://ridgwayrifleclub.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuDVNizOyLk starts out with smallbore then moves on to HP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBz1ftdt2cE

I am asking that each of you take time to fill out the "2017 NRA Silhouette Championship Survey" below. Also if you want to help more you can send an email directly to: Dennis Willing Competitions Dept Manager Dwilling@nrahq.org expressing your desire to have the alternate year plan for the silhouette nationals continue unchanged.

Thanks for your time to keep our sport alive, accessible and thriving,
Owen
804-920-2795

2017 NRA Silhouette Championship Survey

I don't think my link above works in this post so please use the one in Al's post above.

2017 NRA Silhouette Championship Survey
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Re: National Championship Survey Reply to SteveD

Post by Ferret Master »

Steve
I don't go to the Nationals with any hope of wining the championship but to learn from the very best silhouette shooters in the world. I get to watch the very best and to see the very latest equipment and most importantly to see my good friends that I have been shooing with for 40+ years. My week at the Nationals has always been a great experience for my family and I although I will admit some have been a wee bit damper than others.
That being said without a national championship we loose momentum for the sport and have less for our young and new shooters to aspire to and dream off.
Ferret Master

PS Maybe the most important is to set around the campfire and tell tall tales of past glory and fame and share memories of friends that are no longer with us but in our memories.
Ferret Master :)
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Re: National Championship Survey

Post by Bob259 »

Ferret Master wrote:As it stands now there are only two ranges that will support the nationals that will support the nationals, Ridgway and Raton. As I understand it the hosting range needs 10 banks of all animals both smallbore and HP. The alternating system has been working well for almost 40 years. Why break something that is working well. Al is correct I believe that Dennis Willing is trying to do to Rifle Silhouette what it has already done to Hunters Pistol.

I sent this letter out to all my shooting friends today, may give more info:
To All
For the last 40 years the High Power and Smallbore Silhouette National Championships have be for the most part rotated between Ridgway PA and Raton NM . This allowed more than double the participation that would have been possible had they been held in just one location. In most years the participation at Ridgway is way above that of Raton. Last year the participation at Ridgway for HP was 83 shooters and this year at Raton it was 53. Dennis Willing the manager of the NRA Competitive shooting department has made the decision to keep the National Silhouette Championships at the Raton location only until at least 2023. This was done in a Vacuum with out input from the Silhouette Community. Why try and fix something that is and has been working well for 40 years?

One of the most ominous aspects of this decision is that the NRA was able to cancel the Hunters Pistol National Championships by stating that we had to have at least 50 competitors in order to have a National Championship. Participation at Raton is almost at that point now and I fear that this slap in the face to the silhouette community will drop the participation to below the magic number allowing the NRA to do away the High Power and Smallbore National Championships as they have the Hunters Pistol Nationals

I believe that the folks that shoot this match should have been consulted before this decision was made. We are the customers in this case. The new Silhouette Program manager, Barry Ranney is not a silhouette shooter and neither is Dennis Willing the department manager. I do not feel that they have a good handle on the pulse of the silhouette community.

The Ridgway Rifle Club is the only location in the country besides Raton NM that has facilities for both the Smallbore Nationals and the High Power Nationals to be held at the same location back to back. This makes it possible le for a competitor to take just one weeks vacation and shoot both nationals. My family has been shooting at Ridgway for better than 30 years and has always found the club and the town of Ridgway to be a first class act and a family friendly environment. They have great ranges, great facilities and great people. The do everything possible to make sure that you have a memorable and fun experience during the nationals. Here are a couple of links if you want more info on Ridgway Rifle Club.

http://ridgwayrifleclub.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuDVNizOyLk starts out with smallbore then moves on to HP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBz1ftdt2cE

I am asking that each of you take time to fill out the "2017 NRA Silhouette Championship Survey" below. Also if you want to help more you can send an email directly to: Dennis Willing Competitions Dept Manager Dwilling@nrahq.org expressing your desire to have the alternate year plan for the silhouette nationals continue unchanged.

Thanks for your time to keep our sport alive, accessible and thriving,
Owen
804-920-2795

2017 NRA Silhouette Championship Survey

I don't think my link above works in this post so please use the one in Al's post above.

2017 NRA Silhouette Championship Survey
Owen, Your statement is not correct "The Ridgway Rifle Club is the only location in the country besides Raton NM that has facilities for both the Smallbore Nationals and the High Power Nationals to be held at the same location back to back. This makes it possible for a competitor to take just one weeks vacation and shoot both nationals."

It was held in Phoenix several years ago and we still could hold back to back matches here again. More people complained about the heat than anything else here, plus we have TONS more hotels, Motels, eating and camping facilities then either of those two.
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Re: National Championship Survey

Post by ppkny »

Let's start arguing amongst ourselves rather than support at least a effort to get the Nationals back on track at the two locations. Maybe than we can fight for more locations after we win this battle. Please look beyond the single purpose of the survey in it's present form and support the cause as a single step towards regaining some flexibility for locations.
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Re: National Championship Survey

Post by Another Dang 9 »

Amen Pete.
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Re: National Championship Survey

Post by GregG »

I started to take the survey and IMHO this is probably one of the most biased surveys I have ever seen. The questions are structured in such away the only way you can answer and feel good about yourself is to agree with two are better than one. I am afraid any data from this survey would be dismissed as being too biased.

Another point, has our hatred now moved to Dennis? I thought all that was wrong with silhouette was Greg Conner. He is gone, thousands have not returned, now lets blame Dennis?

I for one do not like the Raton, PA back and forth. At least at Raton they use the 10 banks so poorly the match is slow. With the size in the past few years of the nationals, I do not see why other ranges could not host the nationals, or split the highpower, smallbore.

FYI - Stop blaming the NRA.......just like Dustin has been doing, this is our problem to address.
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Re: National Championship Survey

Post by Jerry G »

Greg, we have no say to the NRA rules. 10 banks HP and SB and they have to be at the same place.

Why do you need 10 banks of SB for 80 shooters and 10 banks of HP for 60 shooters? It is a mystery to me.

Why can't we shoot at Ben Avery in early May or mid Oct?

It is the NRA rules that we have no say in.
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Re: National Championship Survey

Post by 45bpcr »

Hello folks,

Next weekend the Ridgway Rifle club is hosting the first BPCR Eastern Silhouette Nationals.
Dennis Willing thought it was a great idea to increase participation in a niche form of silhouette.
Greg Conners will be the NRA official in attendance.

My wife and I are the Match directors.

There has already been enough wailing and knashing of teeth as to who's yard we all get to play in.

Enough is enough.

To my mind, increasing attendance and interest in the sport is the important thing.

All the bitching and moaning just turns people who want to shoot, off.

It's a detriment to our sport.

We need to support each other. We need to encourage folks who've never tried it to take part in our sport.

We all make a commitment to travel, take time away, spend money and concentrate on or own personal scores.
If we can do it at a range that's close to us, that's beautiful.

I need to finish packing so I can head south /west tomorrow morning to run a match next weekend.

If you want to come to Ridgway next weekend and shoot BPCR, I'll have an extra rifle and ammo.

Craig
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Re: National Championship Survey

Post by GregG »

Jerry G wrote:Greg, we have no say to the NRA rules. 10 banks HP and SB and they have to be at the same place.

Why do you need 10 banks of SB for 80 shooters and 10 banks of HP for 60 shooters? It is a mystery to me.

Why can't we shoot at Ben Avery in early May or mid Oct?

It is the NRA rules that we have no say in.
Jerry, your questions are much better than those in the survey. I would take yours.

I do want to point out most national shoots that I am aware of have a fixed home range. The arguments have been and were to build a better range, better facilities and to increase attendance.

USPSA (IHMSA) - Pasa park and have some 20+ years
NRA Action pistol - Chapman academy 35+ years
NRA smallbore, highpower, longrange, and bullseys - camp perry (4 billon years) [some changes are afoot]
SAS - Arizona I think
IHMSA - Fort Stockton

So it is not unprecedented to select a home national range. It is a good and bad thing.
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