dustinflint says

More expensive to feed, but worth it.
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SteveD
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Re: dustinflint says

Post by SteveD »

I have a start on a concept. This pretty much captures my idea for a force gauge fixture.

Some parts such as the pre-tensioning springs and bracing on the AR500 plates, are not shown. My Visio skills are limited.

Moving mass fixture.jpg
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Re: dustinflint says

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To answer my own previous question as to the weight of the moving mass, some of eeleater's comments have helped me come to a conclusion that, while not scientifically supported, is good enough for me unless someone comes up with a better reasoned solution.

I am ok with the idea that the moving mass should weight should be pretty close to the actual weight of the Ram. That would seem to provide resistance to the bullet similar to what it would encounter when striking the Ram and best reflect the transfer of energy from the bullet to the Ram.

A 12" X 12" X 1/2" piece of AR500 weighs 20.42 pounds. Two of them and some bracing should get it to 55 pounds.

I found the manual online for the force gauge and have been able to change the readout from Newtons to pounds. I am still looking for a schematic. I may be able to tap into the output of the strain gauge and transmit it to the firing line and have all of the controls down there. That would make things easy or I end up buying another MG50 so that I can have the display and controls on the firing line. I can try to figure out the circuitry but having the schematic would make things a lot easier.
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Re: dustinflint says

Post by eeleater »

Looks like a plan.

It will be interesting to see what you find.

If you can come up with a way to transmit the data back that would save a huge amount of time.

I searched for a schematic I Google and Bing images with no luck.
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Re: dustinflint says

Post by thauglor »

I think it would be a lot easier to have someone at the 500 yard line in the bunker and safe the range after each hit to record the measurement.
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Re: dustinflint says

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thauglor wrote:I think it would be a lot easier to have someone at the 500 yard line in the bunker and safe the range after each hit to record the measurement.
So you are volunteering? :)
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Re: dustinflint says

Post by OldRanger »

How about a webcam that works over wireless to a laptop at the line. Cost about $50 and can be set up in a couple minutes.
I buy all my guns from t-rex. He's a small arms dealer.
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Re: dustinflint says

Post by SteveD »

Thanks for the suggestion OldRanger. The Force gauge would need to be in peak mode to read the maximum force of the bullet and would need to be re-zeroed after each shot.
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Re: dustinflint says

Post by Jerry G »

I have a remote camera with wireless transmitter that sends a signal back to a receiver and on to a TV. I have used it out to 1,500 yards. It keeps a lot of miles off the quad when shooting at anything past 200 meters and saves a lot of time. The trick is using a good quality HD camera and having your TV in the shade so you can see it.

I think you can get a small electronic force gauge for just a few bucks and the transmitter it hooks to cost around $25. I forgot what it is called. I am still not sure how that translates into the force it takes to knock the ram over but it would be fun to play with.
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Re: dustinflint says

Post by SteveD »

Perhaps you missed it Jerry, I already have a nice force gauge.
Mark 10 digital force gauge reduced.jpg
I have a plan pretty much worked out for the moving mass fixture, aka Ram-O-Meter. I have been looking around for some AR500 for the front and rear plate.

I located a 6mm, 8 twist barrel to test bullets with. If the 120gr bullet I have will work, then the 6mm, 90gr should work too.

I wish I knew someone that had a tube rifle with a Rem 700 action that I could screw the barrel on to for a few test shots......Who could that be? :)
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Re: dustinflint says

Post by Jerry G »

That 8 twist may just do the job. It should work with the 107s. I was shooting my 107s at about 2850 and they took most the rams I shot from the sand bags.

Good luck with your 'fun tests'. You may be able to correlate your results with the contour map I did if you hit in enough different places. You are going to put a lot of miles on a quad. If you shoot more than one animal on a rail, make sure they are all the same. I have seen a lot of animals that the feet aren't perpendicular to the body. That could sway your data.
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Re: dustinflint says

Post by SteveD »

Jerry G wrote:That 8 twist may just do the job. It should work with the 107s. I was shooting my 107s at about 2850 and they took most the rams I shot from the sand bags.
Do I understand correctly that you are knocking over most of the Rams with a 6mm, 107gr bullet? Sierra I assume?
Jerry G wrote:You may be able to correlate your results with the contour map I did if you hit in enough different places.
I'm not planning to shoot at animals, only at the Ram-O-Meter. I took a few measurements on a High Power Rams with the force gauge. The results correlated well with your contour map of the Smallbore Ram scaled up to a 55 pound Ram, well enough that I am satisfied that your map is good and that we have a good understanding of the relative force required at different spots on the Ram. If anyone wants to take more measurements to create a High Power Ram force map or just some more measurements to validate what I saw I would be happy to work with someone to take the measurements. I'm not up to picking up a Ram 50 or 100 times. :)

What I am doing is developing a way to correlate the relative force that different bullet/velocity combination apply to the Ram.

I'll shoot a known bullet, say the Sierra 6.5mm, 123 gr MK at whatever velocity it shoots well at for my rifle, measure the force it imparts onto the Ram-O-Meter and that will be the baseline, a rating of 100. If another bullet/velocity combination measures a 20% greater force then it will have a Ram-O-Meter rating of 120.

This way anyone will be able to compare a bullet/velocity combination to something known. It won't necessarily tell us in the absolute how much force it imparts into the Ram but it will tell us which ones apply more or less force although we may find that the Ram-O-Meter results correlate with the scaled up calculations of your Smallbore Ram contour map.
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Re: dustinflint says

Post by Jerry G »

You are correct on the 107 bullet. Cathy is shooting a 6mm x 47 but she has a fantastic hold.
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Re: dustinflint says

Post by SteveD »

What cartridge are you shooting Jerry?
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Re: dustinflint says

Post by Jerry G »

I was shooting a 243 with a 7 twist bbl. The rifle was re-barreled to 260 after the 243 was shot out. I was shooting the 243 out to 1,000 yds with good luck, 12" 3 shot groups when the wind was under 5 to 6 MPH.
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Re: dustinflint says

Post by SteveD »

I misunderstood the terms "Ramentum" and "Ramficiency".

"Ramficiency" is Ramentum divided by recoil.

Ramentum is what would be measured by the Ram-O-Meter.

Update on the design of the Ram-O-Meter, I talked to someone over the weekend that understands welding AR500 and got some insights on putting the moving mass together. I have found a source for 12" X 12" AR500 plates so I will probably order them this week. I'm looking for the moving mass to weigh around 55 lbs to have a representative inertia for the bullet to encounter.
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