AR 15 platform

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K Danz
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Re: AR 15 platform

Post by K Danz »

I think a change to the rules would be in order here. My suggestion is to just change the wording a bit to allow "military type semi-auto rifles". It then doesn't limit you to only buying something that's "military issued". You then put your 6 mm or larger caliber limit in place.
There are many companies out there selling AR10 platform rifles that are even less money than an M1A. DPMS makes an AR10 (Panther) in .243, .260, 708 and 308 for around $1000 bucks.
If you don't mind spending a little more, Precision Firearms makes them in 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5 Grendell. And they make a 6.8 as well.
Put in a rule about minimum trigger pull for a single stage trigger (there are some very good 2 stage triggers for AR's)
For the folks with less than perfect eyesight, you could put in a scope class with a max limit of say 4X magnification.

Just some ideas to get more folks involved.............
Jerry G
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Re: AR 15 platform

Post by Jerry G »

We have been playing around with 3 different AR-10s. They are shooting good groups with 308 ammo, under 1 min 3 shot groups. I am sure the 260 would do great also. All we need is a rule change to allow the AR platform. That may take 5 or 10 years. :ymdevil:
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DavidABQ
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Re: AR 15 platform

Post by DavidABQ »

Jerry G wrote: All we need is a rule change to allow the AR platform. That may take 5 or 10 years. :ymdevil:

You are very optimistic Jerry!

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hermit5
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Re: AR 15 platform

Post by hermit5 »

Having ran Semi-automatic Military Silhouette matches in Pa and did in fact use an AR-10.The 6:00 hold was the way to go,although very difficult.
The reason you will find they would not be allowed during any HP silhouette match is the issue of flying brass.They have been allowed in conjunction with HP at some clubs but efforts were made to put them on the line so as not to hit other competitors.A type of brass deflector would be in order.
Also efforts to discourage any type of rapid fire should be discouraged.Perhaps by single loading.
The other issue that arises and i cannot allow without comment is this.Having ran 2 registered Pa State Championships for Semi-Auto Military matches.
The NRA particularly Greg Connors refused to keep any kind of National records even though it was officially a registered match.There are no in-a-row pins
The only records set were a Senior who won the match and maybe High score and 5 in a row for pigs and chickens.Only explaination as to why no record was
kept was Silhouette dept was over worked.Therefore this State Championship was cancelled for that reason and the requirement that all state championships had to be recognized by the state Rifle and Pistol ASSES,who took a $3 per shooter fee and did absolutely nothing.
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Re: AR 15 platform

Post by Jerry G »

We have the same problem in smallbore rifle. A brass deflector or catcher is a must.
mjtripper
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Re: AR 15 platform

Post by mjtripper »

Well, here's the thing - most new shooters are starting out using the ar, ak, or 10/22 platforms so if the competitive rifle programs are to survive through the current generation of shooters the rules must change or the current downward spiral of participation numbers will continue all the way down to zero. Create a semi auto division, change the comb height / bore line rule, or something, but get newer and younger shooters into the sport before it's just plain too late.

I see this a lot at the local clubs not just for silhouette but for most shooting leagues. One local club has a weekly rifle match with rotating games and are complaining about dwindling numbers and lack of younger shooters. No ar rifles allowed even if you single load them. Nobody I know wants to buy a rifle just for the local league but would love to come with one of the many ar ones they already have. The local shotgun club wants more people in their leagues but you need an old model 12 or some other model I've never heard of to do so. Change it to a pump league? Nope. Different division? Nope. Autos on the trap line? Nope. Nobody I know my age or younger is going to buy that single purpose shotgun for a local league. Membership and participation numbers go down every year.

I have a family with young ones at home, kids have sports, bills add up, and I have very little free time. I'm an avid shooter but don't have unlimited funds or time. All the local clubs keep asking me 'buy this, buy that, come play!' and I keep going 'change the rules so I can shoot what I have'. Stalemate. I know, preaching to the choir but I couldn't help it. In the end though - change or die. Shooting sports have a hard enough time these days without us making it even harder on ourselves.
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Re: AR 15 platform

Post by Boyd L. »

mjtripper wrote:Well, here's the thing - most new shooters are starting out using the ar, ak, or 10/22 platforms so if the competitive rifle programs are to survive through the current generation of shooters the rules must change or the current downward spiral of participation numbers will continue all the way down to zero. Create a semi auto division, change the comb height / bore line rule, or something, but get newer and younger shooters into the sport before it's just plain too late.

I see this a lot at the local clubs not just for silhouette but for most shooting leagues. One local club has a weekly rifle match with rotating games and are complaining about dwindling numbers and lack of younger shooters. No ar rifles allowed even if you single load them. Nobody I know wants to buy a rifle just for the local league but would love to come with one of the many ar ones they already have. The local shotgun club wants more people in their leagues but you need an old model 12 or some other model I've never heard of to do so. Change it to a pump league? Nope. Different division? Nope. Autos on the trap line? Nope. Nobody I know my age or younger is going to buy that single purpose shotgun for a local league. Membership and participation numbers go down every year.

I have a family with young ones at home, kids have sports, bills add up, and I have very little free time. I'm an avid shooter but don't have unlimited funds or time. All the local clubs keep asking me 'buy this, buy that, come play!' and I keep going 'change the rules so I can shoot what I have'. Stalemate. I know, preaching to the choir but I couldn't help it. In the end though - change or die. Shooting sports have a hard enough time these days without us making it even harder on ourselves.
The CMP Rimfire Sporter competition's growth is evidence that meeting shooters where they are is essential to get them involved in other disciplines.
hermit5
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Re: AR 15 platform

Post by hermit5 »

No one has mentioned target damage.Thats why 5.56 is not allowed in silhouette.You can allow those who want to try an AR in this game but there is a reason that bolt guns and scopes have prevailed.Its a better tool for the job.
It's a great theory to be inclusive of AR in 5.56 but the reality is it won't work well enough and those your trying to bring on board will quit.
Like all the rest of us have done,if you want to play this game do it as it is.

Don,t even think about using an AR at cowboy distance if you value your targets.
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Re: AR 15 platform

Post by OldRanger »

So I wonder why everyone is so gung ho and intent on following the letter of the law for these rules? If I show up at our match and want to shoot my 7.62 scar 17 with open sights or a scope at regulation distances why not allow it? Put me on the right side of the line so nobody gets hit with brass and shoot away. If I want to shoot a 20 pound .308 sniper rifle with a deep belly and a movable cheek piece just let me. So I can't win any matches nor get my book filled in so what. I'm not going to damage targets or affect anyone else day. I'm sure at our local matches here none of this would be an issue. Do you think someone would complain at your matches? Get people there shooting whatever they got as long as it isn't harming anything or anyone.

Just seems like some of your ranges are taking things too far. Why not be flexible and have fun?
I buy all my guns from t-rex. He's a small arms dealer.
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