Survey

This is what we do.
lijeboy
AA Poster
AA Poster
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:52 pm

Survey

Post by lijeboy » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:55 am

Since traditionally Championship matches are 120 rounds, would there be a downside to having two 60s rather than three 40s for High Power and Smallbore? Seems like a better use of time to me.

Just thinking out loud.
Last edited by lijeboy on Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
~Jeanne Ring

It's always something.

thauglor
AA Poster
AA Poster
Posts: 310
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:18 pm

Re: Survey

Post by thauglor » Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:43 am

I would prefer the 40 shot. Shooting 2 rifles would be tougher when you are shooting 120 shots a day for record vs 80.

You might get lower turnout since some people can't physically do both rifles. At the recent AZ state match, I had 4 people tell me they would shoot both rifles if it was 40 a match compared to our 60.

It also extends the time by an hour for each match. With it being the nationals and doing more shoot offs than a regular match, you will be going later. The daily rain in Raton would affect people on relay 4 in hunter class more than anyone else.

With only 1 day in between HP and SB it could still be done with only 5 days vacation if it starts on Sunday and ends on Saturday.

- Zoran

atomicbrh
Master Poster
Master Poster
Posts: 1103
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:24 pm
Location: Rural Mississippi

Re: Survey

Post by atomicbrh » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:16 pm

Significantly more competitors attended the 2019 Smallbore Nationals in Ridgway than the 2018 Smallbore Nationals in Raton. Common sense would say to do as much as possible to emulate the National match that attracts the most competitors. We go to Raton for one reason and one reason only and that is to support our Sport by shooting the National event. Many of our senior smallbore competitors are not in the best health, have difficulty walking on the rocks and difficulty with the altitude. We need to keep the seniors competing as long as possible. We do not need to cause them any health problems. The 2018 smallbore match caller ran people too hard going from Ram Bank 1 to Chicken Bank 1. His language from the tower on the last afternoon of smallbore became abusive and disrespectful to the competitors just because they were old and were not moving as fast as he liked. A 60 round match would make that abuse even worse to keep his schedule. I do not think the vast majority of people were afraid of the rain or storms but it appeared the match caller was frightened of rain. A precedence for 3 day 40 shot matches has been established by the people who set records for the NRA national championships since silhouette began. Future competitors attempting to shoot new National records need to shoot exactly the same format as the previous record holders not a more grueling format each day. We want the traditional 3 day 40 round matches. At the 2007 Smallbore Nationals in Raton, there were 7 relays and weather so bad on the second day that no animal would stay up and we still finished in plenty of time all three days. There is so much wrong with Raton already. Do not add to the misery with 60 round matches.
Julie and I vote "NO" to 60 round national matches.
Last edited by atomicbrh on Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

atomicbrh
Master Poster
Master Poster
Posts: 1103
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:24 pm
Location: Rural Mississippi

Re: Survey

Post by atomicbrh » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:54 pm

Secondly, if there are only 3 or 4 Smallbore scoped relays in 2020 there will be less recovery time for the seniors than in past years but more fatigue from spotting and shooting 15 rounds at a time. Many seniors are continually on the line because with their years of experience they are in demand as spotters. More time on the line each day than the 80 rounds per day.

lijeboy
AA Poster
AA Poster
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:52 pm

Re: Survey

Post by lijeboy » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:13 pm

I'm starting to get the idea you aren't in favor of this, Bobby.
Last edited by lijeboy on Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
~Jeanne Ring

It's always something.

lone ringer
Master Poster
Master Poster
Posts: 1010
Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 9:33 am
Location: CA

Re: Survey

Post by lone ringer » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:14 pm

As far as SB is concerned I do not mind shooting 60 round matches because ultimately I like to shoot a lot and there are no SB matches in my area.
My feeling about shooting 60 round matches in HP is different because I remember shooting at least one CA State match where we shot 60 round matches rather than 40 and some of us including me had trouble with the last five rounds shooting in the hot weather when the pressure from the hot barrel/chamber made our loads unsafe. Just something to take into consideration

atomicbrh
Master Poster
Master Poster
Posts: 1103
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:24 pm
Location: Rural Mississippi

Re: Survey

Post by atomicbrh » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:38 pm

Jeanne, a question about all this. Who are the principles for the Whittington Center and the NRA that negotiate the National match contracts? And I do not mean their names. Is it like a NRA employee or NRA committee and one person or a committee from Whittington? If so, I would like for the NRA person or people to be firmer in the negotiations to result in lower National match fees. The match fee for the 2018 Nationals was $205 if you shot both rifles. That was a high fee for multiple shooters in a family. If we have a 2 day match in 2020 we would like for the match fee to be $136.66 or less.

lijeboy
AA Poster
AA Poster
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:52 pm

Re: Survey

Post by lijeboy » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:07 pm

The title of this thread is "Survey," and that's all it is. I am always looking for ways to be more efficient in both my personal and professional life, and by the same token, am open to hearing the pros and cons from those it would affect. The 2020 schedule is set so there is no need to get your knickers in a twist and start demanding lower entry fees, more strenuous negotiations, etc.

I'm still interested in others' opinions on this subject.

And, Bobby, I'll put you down for a "No."
~Jeanne Ring

It's always something.

User avatar
acorneau
AAA Poster
AAA Poster
Posts: 554
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:12 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Survey

Post by acorneau » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:14 pm

As a Smallbore and Air Rifle guy I don't mind 60's at all, in fact I kind of like them. The idea of shooting Nationals in two days instead of three would probably be just fine for me.

However, I can understand Bobby's concerns of older folks having a harder time with that kind of format, especially at a bigger match (like Nationals) where everyone is either shooting or spotting for a large percentage of the time.

I also agree that shooting longer days is probably a bad idea when shooting at Raton due to the afternoon thunderstorms. In someplace like Ridgway it's probably not a problem at all, assuming the whole match can get done before it starts getting dark.

I don't shoot high power but I could only guess how 15-shot strings would affect the flinch-factor.
Allen Corneau

atomicbrh
Master Poster
Master Poster
Posts: 1103
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:24 pm
Location: Rural Mississippi

Re: Survey

Post by atomicbrh » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:00 pm

Jeanne, you did not say for us to reply with just "Yes" or "No" without our opinions. If so that is all we would have done. Even with the few replies so far there has been good discussion. Not demanding anything, not angry about anything. Just giving my input as a NRA member and competitor. We the NRA should receive the best value we can for everything our NRA buys even if it is a match venue our NRA is paying for. If the contract is already set in stone, how can the match days be reduced to two days when the contract already specifies a 3 day match and the specific dates?

lijeboy
AA Poster
AA Poster
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:52 pm

Re: Survey

Post by lijeboy » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:08 pm

Lord, Bobby. I just asked for opinions. I didn't say the format was changing 2020. Maybe you should reread the original post.
~Jeanne Ring

It's always something.

atomicbrh
Master Poster
Master Poster
Posts: 1103
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:24 pm
Location: Rural Mississippi

Re: Survey

Post by atomicbrh » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:33 pm

Jeanne, I am not making these replies just to be disruptive. There are some things that maybe you will be able to improve and correct as the years go by. You know there is absolutely no negativity coming from us once we are on the range. Now the mention of the "Lord" brings up a good point. Silhouette is the only sport we have been involved in that does not have a prayer to go along with the National anthem. Silhouette is the only travelling sport we have been involved in that does not have a ministry attached to it and a short church service before anything starts on Sunday mornings. In these other sports nobody had to go to the church service or be within hearing distance of it. The church services were not on the PA system. Of course in those other sports, we thought we might be killed any second. When the NRA divested itself of God years ago, the downward spiral began for the NRA as an organization. Like the government, they did want to offend anybody.

User avatar
acorneau
AAA Poster
AAA Poster
Posts: 554
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:12 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Survey

Post by acorneau » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:47 pm

Image
Allen Corneau

lijeboy
AA Poster
AA Poster
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:52 pm

Re: Survey

Post by lijeboy » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:53 pm

Good one, Allen.
~Jeanne Ring

It's always something.

atomicbrh
Master Poster
Master Poster
Posts: 1103
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:24 pm
Location: Rural Mississippi

Re: Survey

Post by atomicbrh » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:23 pm

Th other thing about this hornet's nest is how many of us all across the country are posting on the forum on a Friday night with nothing better to do.

Post Reply