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Barrel Weight Question

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:44 am
by Emietenkorte
Hello! I am trying to make a decision about my barrel and was wondering if anyone had some experience with this. Currently I have a Lilja RF53 contour barrel and about 11oz. of lead in the stock. I'm thinking of getting an RF54 barrel which if I used Lilja's barrel weight calculator correctly is 11oz. heavier. Would 11oz in the barrel instead of the stock make a discernible difference in holding movement? I'm trying to figure out if it would be worth it... I guess the question in my mind of "is my rifle at it's maximum potential" keeps popping up. Any assistance will be greatly appreciated! :D

Re: Barrel Weight Question

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:26 am
by GSL
HI ALL ,
YES , I believe you will feel a BIG difference ...
Having that weight out front instead of towards the middle is a big difference .
TRY a little less barrel ... you WILL NOT want to cut that barrel if your calculations are a little off ...

GSL

Re: Barrel Weight Question

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:35 am
by Doodaddy
Emietenkorte wrote:
Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:44 am
Hello! I am trying to make a decision about my barrel and was wondering if anyone had some experience with this. Currently I have a Lilja RF53 contour barrel and about 11oz. of lead in the stock. I'm thinking of getting an RF54 barrel which if I used Lilja's barrel weight calculator correctly is 11oz. heavier. Would 11oz in the barrel instead of the stock make a discernible difference in holding movement? I'm trying to figure out if it would be worth it... I guess the question in my mind of "is my rifle at it's maximum potential" keeps popping up. Any assistance will be greatly appreciated! :D
What is your crowned length on your current barrel and what area do you think you'll land with the RF54? Based on your mentioning of an 11oz difference, I'm guessing you're in the neighborhood of 23.5-24" based on my calculations. It's really neither here nor there I suppose.

Your current scenario has 11oz concentrated in one area (in addition to the barrel) and the second has it spread across the length of the barrel with more weight farther out than the previous. When it comes down to it, you'll still have the same amount of weight in front of the receiver in both scenarios, but the new barrel will have the weight farther from the receiver. It will be more barrel heavy. I can't tell you exactly how much it will feel different, but I'm sure it's there.

If you're concerned with balance, why not give yourself a little wiggle room? Lilja will make a custom contour. Have a heavier contour made that is between the 53 and 54. If you'll look at row 24, that's the same exact barrel contour (3" straight section breech end and 25" of taper) as the 53 and 54 with slightly different diameters. At the length of 23.5" it saves you nearly 5oz from the 54 which you can then position 5 oz of weight in the stock to balance to your preference. If you need/want more, obviously the diameters can be altered again.

Image

Re: Barrel Weight Question

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:48 pm
by thauglor
Since its all cylinders, calculate how much further forward the new barrel will put the weight. Remember, the extra 11 oz wont all be at the tip of the barrel.

You could even then take your lead weights, put 11oz on the point you calculated above, and presto, you have the weight balance of the new barrel for $0. You can do a couple of matches with the weight there. You will not be officially competing but who cares for a match or two. Then if you like it, get the new barrel.

Re: Barrel Weight Question

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:43 pm
by jask
deleted

Re: Barrel Weight Question

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:08 am
by Doodaddy
jask wrote:
Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:43 pm
A cheaper option would be to remove the lead and use a barrel weight at the muzzle end. You could then "tune" the barrel to optimize accuracy. You could get 3/4" two piece shaft collars that weigh close to 4 oz. If you use 2, that would give you 8 oz adjustment and you can use a feeler gauge between the collars to accurately adjust for tuning. They only cost about 6.50 on ebay. Not only would you get the weight in an optimum position, you can tune for your ammunition for a very accurate rifle. To obtain 11 oz, you could mill some off each side of of a third shaft collar.
That would also disqualify the rifle from being able to be shot in the Hunter class.

Re: Barrel Weight Question

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:00 am
by jask
deleted

Re: Barrel Weight Question

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:17 am
by thauglor
jask wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:00 am
Who said anything about hunter class? Also, wouldn't building a custom rifle be defeating the intended purpose of the hunter class?
I assumed he was building a hunter class gun because of the tapered barrel.

Custom guns in hunter class have been around a long time.

Re: Barrel Weight Question

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:10 am
by Doodaddy
jask wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:00 am
Who said anything about hunter class? Also, wouldn't building a custom rifle be defeating the intended purpose of the hunter class?
Tapered barrel and the fact that the majority of shooters use one gun across both classifications says hunter class unless otherwise stated. Also, no. At least not according to the NRA rules as they currently exist.

Re: Barrel Weight Question

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:14 pm
by jask
deleted

Re: Barrel Weight Question

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:39 pm
by Emietenkorte
Thank you for your responses. Yes it is for my hunter gun. I spoke to Lilja this morning and it looks like the RF 54 will fit my weight parameters. I think I'll order the barrel and put the question in my mind to rest.

Re: Barrel Weight Question

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:09 pm
by Jason
Erich, how long is the barrel that you have on your rifle now? I have an RF53 taper barrel on my 1712 that I shoot every month. With a Pharr RTS stock and the lightest rings and triggerguard I could get (Marvin Pearson-made for both, I think) and a lightweight foam buttpad, I'm one ounce from max hunter weight with a Weaver T24 fixed power scope. That is with no extra weight added anywhere, as I wanted to save weight everywhere I could so I could put it all in the barrel. I used Lilja's weight calculator when specifying the barrel length with the RF53 taper and ended up about one ounce over weight, which resulted in me having to cut the barrel shorter. I think my RF53 barrel is about 24.5" now from the bolt face to the muzzle, but I can measure it later tonight when I get home. I'm not sure how the weight of a 1712 action compares to your Sako (?) action, but the 1712 action is fairly light compared to most target 22lr actions.

You may want to be careful about getting a heavier taper barrel, as adding weight closer to the center of mass slows oscillation less than weight farther away from the center of mass. Feel free to handle/shoot mine at any match.

Re: Barrel Weight Question

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:03 pm
by Emietenkorte
Jason wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:09 pm
Erich, how long is the barrel that you have on your rifle now? I have an RF53 taper barrel on my 1712 that I shoot every month. With a Pharr RTS stock and the lightest rings and triggerguard I could get (Marvin Pearson-made for both, I think) and a lightweight foam buttpad, I'm one ounce from max hunter weight with a Weaver T24 fixed power scope. That is with no extra weight added anywhere, as I wanted to save weight everywhere I could so I could put it all in the barrel. I used Lilja's weight calculator when specifying the barrel length with the RF53 taper and ended up about one ounce over weight, which resulted in me having to cut the barrel shorter. I think my RF53 barrel is about 24.5" now from the bolt face to the muzzle, but I can measure it later tonight when I get home. I'm not sure how the weight of a 1712 action compares to your Sako (?) action, but the 1712 action is fairly light compared to most target 22lr actions.

You may want to be careful about getting a heavier taper barrel, as adding weight closer to the center of mass slows oscillation less than weight farther away from the center of mass. Feel free to handle/shoot mine at any match.

Jason,
My barrel is cut at 24" and with the 11oz of weight in the stock my rifle is at 8lbs 6oz. I couldn't imagine my Sako action being lighter than the 1712. I know my stock is at 24oz. my rings are 2.5 oz and I have a Leupold FX-3 25x which the factory says is around 14oz.
I have shot your rifle before and it seems to sit in the target a little better. I've shot a few different rifles with all the weight in the barrel and I seem to sit in the target better... That's why I keep wondering if I should just go that route... ugh... this is all Mel's fault for getting me into this game hahaha =))

The other thing is I have been averaging 35/40 with this rifle, shooting in both classes... I'm starting to wonder if I need to have Steve build me a stock for my 2013. The thing sits in the safe 9 months out of the year except the indoor position league I shoot in during the Winter, might as well make it useful all year long... Barreled action with the 24" Anschutz barrel weight exactly 7lbs. I could make standard weight no problem. So many choices...

Re: Barrel Weight Question

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:53 pm
by jask
deleted

Re: Barrel Weight Question

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:18 pm
by Emietenkorte
jask wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:53 pm
Once again, silhouette shooters have shot themselves full of Fosdick size holes. Why on Earth have two classes both allowing custom rifles. That's insane. Just shoot twice the amount with one rifle, one scope with less cost and maintenance.

BTW, are you familiar with the IMSSU rules on hunter rifle? I was on the rules committee when those were written. Hunter rifles must have an original or factory replacement barrel. Let common sense reign.

Hey man, I didn't mean to upset you... I was just hoping to get some info about a subject from people who know more than me. Thanks for your input.