Colorado State SB Sil. Rifle Championship a Fraud

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MetalMisser
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Colorado State SB Sil. Rifle Championship a Fraud

Post by MetalMisser »

Ok, fraud might be a little tough but here is the deal. The 2015 Colorado Smallbore Rifle State Championship match run by David Bonner at Aurora Gun Club September 19-20 was not a NRA legal state championship as promoted by the club and David Bonner. It was not approved or even submitted to the Colorado State Shooting Association and that is required by the NRA for regional and state championships. It was not sanctioned by the NRA and that is also required for an NRA state or regional match-and David Bonner with his background knows these things.

The scores, class wins, and any records do not count with the NRA and the match and any winners will not be recognized as a state match by the NRA not even in their publications. In fact, apparently the NRA is aware of this and looking into this from several angles and from several levels at both the clubs and at Bonner's involvement, the latter as the match director.

Because the whole two day affair was not a legal NRA sanctioned state championship the people who traveled to it and spent two days and there using their time and money got...
GregG
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Re: Colorado State SB Sil. Rifle Championship a Fraud

Post by GregG »

I love it. A new poster who wants to stir up problems in the silhouette community and will not identify themselves. My count so far this year is 3. Come on if you have a problem, be man or woman enough to say so and use your name.

Greg
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Re: Colorado State SB Sil. Rifle Championship a Fraud

Post by dustinflint »

MetalMisser wrote:Ok, fraud might be a little tough but here is the deal. The 2015 Colorado Smallbore Rifle State Championship match run by David Bonner at Aurora Gun Club September 19-20 was not a NRA legal state championship as promoted by the club and David Bonner. It was not approved or even submitted to the Colorado State Shooting Association and that is required by the NRA for regional and state championships. It was not sanctioned by the NRA and that is also required for an NRA state or regional match-and David Bonner with his background knows these things.

The scores, class wins, and any records do not count with the NRA and the match and any winners will not be recognized as a state match by the NRA not even in their publications. In fact, apparently the NRA is aware of this and looking into this from several angles and from several levels at both the clubs and at Bonner's involvement, the latter as the match director.

Because the whole two day affair was not a legal NRA sanctioned state championship the people who traveled to it and spent two days and there using their time and money got...
Whoever you are, you're obviously an idiot. David Bonner is a great competitor, match director, ambassador for the game, and friend. He's responsible for much of the silhouette that takes place in Colorado and makes it his business to travel around and attend/support matches all across the country. He's run as many matches as anyone and he knows what he's doing. Also, he signs his name to his comments unlike the chickensh*t you put out.

Go away...

Dustin
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Re: Colorado State SB Sil. Rifle Championship a Fraud

Post by rogersptl »

Good question BUT can only wonder if metalmisser is the one who cried to NRA and got Greg to violate the classification rule for his benefit rather than shoot the required scores to be reclassified. Nothing in the rules at present changes the requirement for [a known shooter]the number of scores fired in a lower class before being down classed; not having shot for 10 years, or loosing an arm etc. Maybe the board will address this in Nov. I asked at the 2014 Nationals and have written again this year.
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MetalMisser
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Re: Colorado State SB Sil. Rifle Championship a Fraud

Post by MetalMisser »

Yup, new poster here and this was my first-there are no start up rules and I have posted some on other subjects today. Bottom line the facts are what the facts are-check with the state association and the NRA (I heard about it so I checked) before you aggressively whine about this or that or something you don't personally like--the facts are the facts.
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Re: Colorado State SB Sil. Rifle Championship a Fraud

Post by dustinflint »

MetalMisser wrote:Yup, new poster here and this was my first-there are no start up rules and I have posted some on other subjects today. Bottom line the facts are what the facts are-check with the state association and the NRA (I heard about it so I checked) before you aggressively whine about this or that or something you don't personally like--the facts are the facts.
I don't care about those "facts;" I don't care about the state association or the NRA; and I don't care if you're a new poster or that you've posted to other threads. I do care that you're bad-mouthing my friend and a fellow match-director. Since you are new here and trying to keep your identity a secret, let me give you a few tips to help keep folks from figuring out that you're a loser and possibly using that information to figure out who you are:

First, don't spread crap about people. The silhouette community is small and most of us are good friends. Dave has a lot of friends here.

Second, don't complain about matches. You are not a match director. If you were, you'd know that there are certain difficulties in dealing with some state associations and the NRA. It's not a big deal. The match director will work it out when he or she is not busy dealing with any one of a million things a match director has to juggle along with a full-time job and other concerns. This probably never crossed whatever mind you have, but without match directors we don't have matches and without matches we don't have a sport to enjoy. Do you see the NRA or a state association running club, state or regional matches? Match directors are the MOST IMPORTANT silhouette shooters we have! Support them - don't run your mouth and piss them off.

Third, if you have a problem with a match or a shooter, deal with it privately. No one likes the person that does it publicly, especially if that person also tries to do it anonymously.

Dustin
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Re: Colorado State SB Sil. Rifle Championship a Fraud

Post by MetalMisser »

I did not get into Steel Chickens to debate with someone like yourself who says he does not care about rules, the NRA or state associations--which does make one wonder what you do care about if you are a competitor and a member of the NRA. Second I did not say anything bad about Bonner personally--don't know him so I am dealing with factual information re the match and since he was the match director and as you confirm, he has a heavy background in running matches, etc. he and his club has the responsibility and knowledge to do it right. If not done right and within the rules this all leads to some type of anyone can say or do matches anarchy and by using the NRA and its prestige (without proper authorization) to make shooters think it is a proper championship match--that is generally called fraud in most legal circles--and which I am not claiming here. So, Mr. Flint-go play with yourself if you don't care about the NRA, I sure as hell do.
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Re: Colorado State SB Sil. Rifle Championship a Fraud

Post by OldRanger »

Does the name Leroy Wiler mean anything to anyone? The metalmissus email is leroywiler@gmail.com. Just sayin. Hope you volunteer to run the matches out there at Aurora from now on Leroy. Then you will have the right to bitch, until then STFU.
I buy all my guns from t-rex. He's a small arms dealer.
MetalMisser
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Re: Colorado State SB Sil. Rifle Championship a Fraud

Post by MetalMisser »

Not from Colorado where Aurora is located--but I am well connected and who, how, what or when is none of your business. Word and results eventually get out about stuff like this faux state championship and the facts are simply the facts no matter how ignorant and aggressive your "old ranger" feelings are.

Ya know I am beginning to enjoy debating the mindless banter you guys throw out to defend doing the wrong thing for all the wrong reasons or bad mouthing the NRA to try to defend your in error position to show how macho you are. This posting thing is interesting to say the least having not done it before but I have a long trip and some things to do for a while, grind on. -- DE OPPRESSOR LIBRE
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Re: Colorado State SB Sil. Rifle Championship a Fraud

Post by OldRanger »

Facts are one thing, attacking someone we all know and respect is quite another. Calling it fraud is immediately calling Dave a liar and cheat. And he isn't. Did you ask him what happened? I bet you haven't.

My name is Kris Hosick, I live in Missoula MT. I don't hide behind handles. And I don't attack people for no reason.

Now where is that darn ignore button?
I buy all my guns from t-rex. He's a small arms dealer.
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Re: Colorado State SB Sil. Rifle Championship a Fraud

Post by xpilot »

Dear Leroy (or Misser if that is what you prefer).........If you had a question regarding the match registration etc., why not call David and ask ??????????????????
Leroy I admit I am getting old and should probably be more understanding but I wonder why some get their panties in a wad instead of acting like an adult. Please come to one of my matches so we can chat.

Jim Rose, HP match director
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Re: Colorado State SB Sil. Rifle Championship a Fraud

Post by Jerry G »

Damn, I think I know who that is and he is from western CO. Way to JS!!!! :ymdevil: =))
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Re: Colorado State SB Sil. Rifle Championship a Fraud

Post by hugh »

Piss off Le-roy. Go away. Don't come back, don't reply. Eat Sh*t and die. Leave my friends alone you turd. You don't deserve to shoot on the same line with the people your talking about. This should make things ABSOLUTELY clear to you and your dimwitted pea sized brain. Unplug your computer, crawl back in your hole and light up another joint.

hugh
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Re: Colorado State SB Sil. Rifle Championship a Fraud

Post by atomicbrh »

The NRA rule that you have to belong to the state NRA Association in the state where you shoot a state championship match is ridiculous when you are not a resident of that state. Does is it make sense that I live in Mississippi but have to belong to each state's NRA Association to shoot that state's Silhouette championship? Why is this a requirement? Is this a requirement just to raise money for the state NRA organizations? My NRA state association in McComb, MS. has done absolutely zero to promote Silhouette matches. They do not get any of my money. Their main claim to fame is putting on political fund raisers known as "friends of the nra" at our state capital when they live two hours or more away from the state capital. Dustin has asked me a couple of times why we do not host a Mississippi State championship and this is the reason why. Our state NRA organization is not a State wide organization but a organization that raises money for one very small gun club where their officers live. David Bonner is a rare person indeed. Bonner is one of the few people out there who can work as match director and also shoot top scores. We need more people like Bonner not less.
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Re: Colorado State SB Sil. Rifle Championship a Fraud

Post by MetalMisser »

While the insane name callers (Internet cowards) rant on by hallucinating this is some type of personal thing about Bonner or ANY match director who may do this--it isn't. THE REAL SOLUTION IS SIMPLE. Either do it the way the NRA and applicable state association have it set up or don't claim NRA approval. Clubs and individuals generally do not have to be members of their state association. But if that association and the NRA have an agreement regarding competitions and other matters officially run under the NRA then the club and match director must comply with the NRA requirements IF the NRA is used in the promotion or program or for recognition of the winners, etc. and in the case of regionals for the fist, second, and third place medallions. Not difficult to understand.

IF you want to say your match is NRA approve or sanctioned for the prestige and credibility that means for a match and the promotion the NRA will give it in publications and the Internet, then you play by their rules. THE OTHER OPTION is to do it on your own without the NRA being linked to it in any manner (not as the false Colorado match was). If you go independent you and your club or that range had better have plenty of the proper liability insurance and a good way to get the information out about the match.

If your club or you hates your state association and/or does not belong to it, dandy, but and again, the NRA and that particular state association may (probably) have a professional link and if if you want to use the NRA's name on your program and advertising to get more shooters in that state, have the scores and any records established, etc. regardless of the competition discipline, the shooting world does not revolve around silhouette, you must then comply with the NRA and the state's requirements and the Colorado match did not do this.

And as one poster incorrectly thought, you do NOT generally have to be a member of another states association to cross state lines to shoot in matches; some require it though. But in your own in state club MAY have to be a member or at the least must comply with NRA in your state requirement to run a approved or sanctioned match under NRA auspices. Don't want to play the game and the requirements--then don't compete there, it is their game. It is not difficult-if you want NRA recognition-don't say you have it if you don't-that is a fraud or lie no matter how you look at it. If you want to run your own independent thing then no one is stopping you from doing that.
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